Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 62
  1. #41
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,056

    Default

    It is quite obvious that the majority of the posts around are not run to BSA guidlines.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.


  2. #42
    Forum Member TNFF319's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Collierville, TN
    Posts
    628

    Default

    I find it funny that some recommend at least 19 to drive a Ranger. I know several 18 year olds driving pumpers and ambulances right this second. If you can drive a hummer for the army at 18, you can probably drive a Ranger.
    Last edited by TNFF319; 11-26-2008 at 02:42 PM.
    FF/Paramedic

  3. #43
    Forum Member SPIPER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    649

    Default

    Fire and Emergency Services Exploring: Safety Issues

    There are some issues and hazards specific to Fire and Emergency Services Explorer programs that must be considered when organizing a post. These issues are fairly unique compared with other types of Explorer posts, being a direct result of the post's affiliation with the department and the potential for hazards.

    Before engaging in any training activity or direct operational activities with the department, Exploring and/or department officials should investigate the legalities of Explorers participating in such activities. Most states have child labor laws that define what minors under the age of 18 may and may not participate in. Even though the individual may not be an actual member or employee of the department, these regulations may still apply. The following is a general list of guidelines that should be used for the formation of a post Explorer safety policy. As with any program, extremes of temperature, humidity, and other atmospheric conditions should be considered during any activity.

    One issue that requires particular attention is what the Fire and Emergency Services Explorer will be allowed to do at the emergency scene. Many departments allow Explorers to respond on the apparatus with trained personnel. A solid policy must be established as to what the Explorer may and may not do once he or she arrives on the scene.

    All policies must fit with departmental regulations, Learning for Life regulations, and state laws. All of these issues should be resolved in the post bylaws before Fire and Emergency Services Explorer activities begin. If you have any questions about the safety of an activity not listed, contact your local Learning for Life office.

    * Explorers may not be substituted for trained personnel.
    * Explorers must be equipped with personal protective equipment that is appropriate for the activity being done.
    * Explorers may be mobilized only as a post, with required leadership. Explorers are not on call as individuals.
    * Explorers who ride on apparatus or other department vehicles must be seated and must wear a seat belt.
    * Explorers may not drive department vehicles.
    * Explorers may not climb aerial ladders.
    * Explorers may not climb ground ladders that exceed 35 feet in length, or not supported against a structure.
    * Explorers may not enter or perform ventilation procedures on a burning structure.
    * Explorers may not use any tools or gloves on energized electrical equipment.
    * Explorers may not operate cutting torches
    * Explorers may not operate hydraulic rescue tools or equipment.
    * Explorers may not handle life nets.
    * Exceptions: Using an official training facility, the use of aerial ladders with the appropriate safety equipment, and entering a controlled burn building is approved.

    http://www.learning-for-life.org/exploring/fire/
    Steve
    Proud member of the IACOJ
    SUA SPONTE
    "I've got no respect for any young man who won't join the colors."
    ~Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, CSA

  4. #44
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Green Bay
    Posts
    1,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TNFF319 View Post
    I find it funny that some recommend at least 19 to drive a Ranger. I know several 18 year olds driving pumpers and ambulances right this second. If you can drive a hummer for the army at 18, you can probably drive a Ranger.

    Apples to oranges regarding driving in the Army. There are many rules, regulations and training involved with the military and some kids driving a fire apparatus. The rules and regulations regarding explorers has been posted here twice and while some posts do things different, the general rules still should be followed. Just because someone is of legal driving age, doesn't mean they can, nor should be able to drive a fire apparatus, especially an explorer who isn't even a sworn member of a FD. It is one thing if a person is 18 and a sworm member of a fire department, then it is up to the department of how they operate.

    And since you bring up the military, you could go back to the years' old debate about a soldier under 21 being able to drink. They can fight and die for the country, but they can't have a beer if under 21, not legally. So in the same sense, just because an explorer may be of driving age and have a license, doesn't mean they should drive a fire apparatus either. I have also never seen a dept with stricter rules about operating vehicles than set forth by the military.
    The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.

  5. #45
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Whitehall Pa. USA
    Posts
    95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mspradio2215 View Post
    the question came up last night at our dept. drill/meeting, "should explorers be allowed to drive apparatus?" the apparatus in question was a Polaris Ranger. Does anyone have any Dept SOGs regarding this, or is there some sort of law governing this? looking for any assistance. thanks in advance!
    Ours is prety clear 21 on any class B or greater apparatus or 18 on something driven on an emergency scene, like an ATV or boat. As always responsibility and character play heavily into the qualification process in addition to skill.
    Totally Unacceptable !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. #46
    Forum Member ndvfdff33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Winterpeg Manitoba
    Posts
    2,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TNFF319 View Post
    If you can drive a hummer for the army at 18, you can probably drive a Ranger.
    This isn't the same at all. That 18 y/o soldier is doing that because it's an occupational requirement they are able to drive. It is NOT an occupational requirement for an 18 y/o, or younger, explorer to drive that Ranger. Heck it's not even an occupation.

    Besides, most military's put their soldiers through the paces when they go on driver training for any vehicle. I know up here north of the border, our driving courses go pretty in depth when we learn a vehicle. We have to go on a course just to drive a military owned golf cart. I would expect the training standards would be much the same in the US.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  7. #47
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    11

    Default

    i'd like to thank everyone for their response. It appears that the BSA guidelines cover it all. We decided at our safety committee meeting to deny the driving. Thanks again to lex and spiper. Just for back-up, do you know where I can find the penalties for any violations?

  8. #48
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Toledo/Pittsburgh
    Posts
    1,316

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mspradio2215 View Post
    i'd like to thank everyone for their response. It appears that the BSA guidelines cover it all. We decided at our safety committee meeting to deny the driving. Thanks again to lex and spiper. Just for back-up, do you know where I can find the penalties for any violations?
    I don't know of any "penalties". Yes, the guidelines spell it all out very simply. As for penalties - I guess that's in your own hands. You have to weigh the risk of someone being injured. Try asking the BSA's and your department's insurance companies how much they'd cover in the event of an incident occuring in which an Explorer was behind the wheel... I'm willing to bet half of my MVA settlement money that it'd be next to nothing - IMO, that would be your penalty should someone become injured.

    The BSA relies on you as the leader to make sure their guidelines are followed. As to what they'd do if they found out we were doing more than what their guidelines say, I'm assuming they'd take our charter away from us... what else can they do?
    Firefighter/EMT
    My words stated here do not necessarily point towards organizations which I am affiliated with.

  9. #49
    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,111

    Default

    Only City employees can drive City vehicles.

    Explorers are not City employees. Even if they were, we don't and wouldn't allow it.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

  10. #50
    Forum Member Natatha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    Only City employees can drive City vehicles.

    Explorers are not City employees. Even if they were, we don't and wouldn't allow it.
    Aww! Come on dickey! You know I can take HR-1 out without a problem!

    *Crosses Fingers that no dents or scratches would be applied....*

    :P

    I totally agree, however, no explorer, regardless of age, should be allowed to drive a department vehicle. Hell, teens can barely handle cars at times, how the hell would they be able to handle a multi-hundred-thousand dollar vehicle.

    Just doesn't make sense.
    Mike Kelly
    Altoona Fire Department
    Explorer Post 800
    Altoona, Wisconsin

  11. #51
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    41

    Default

    you need to check your state Labor Laws. In CT, Juniors cannot operate anything until 18, however, we let them drive our Forest Rescue Vehicle (Club Car XRT) at work sessions as long as they have someone that is checked off to drive it with them.

    In order to operate it at a call, you have to attend and pass a UTV training course. If anyone has the chance to take one, do it. We took ours with Ashmore Industries in Waterbury, CT.

  12. #52
    Forum Member MTKROUSH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Hernando MS USA
    Posts
    558

    Default

    If it's department policy that Explorers, Juniors, Cadets or whatever else you want to call them don't drive then they don't drive anything that may be considered a department vehicle. There is a reason for the policy. It don't make sense that a Junior can't drive a Polaris Ranger when it's all together possible that they have one at the house and drive it all the time. Those are the policies.

    This also takes the tendencies of teenagers out of play. You let them drive the Ranger then they want the Chief's car since it's not apparatus. Then they want the grass rig since most of them are 3/4 or 1 ton pick up trucks with skid units in them. Finally they push for the pumper. They will make the arguement that they have been with the department for x number of years and they have the requisite experience. Goes back to give an inch and they will try to take a mile.
    To err is human, To forgive divine and at times I am as much of both as you will ever find

  13. #53
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mspradio2215 View Post
    the question came up last night at our dept. drill/meeting, "should explorers be allowed to drive apparatus?" the apparatus in question was a Polaris Ranger. Does anyone have any Dept SOGs regarding this, or is there some sort of law governing this? looking for any assistance. thanks in advance!
    In my company, you have to be 21 years of age to drive any responding apparatus vehicle. But there is really no reason for Cadets to be driving an emergency service vehicle to a call.

  14. #54
    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Natatha View Post
    Aww! Come on dickey! You know I can take HR-1 out without a problem!

    *Crosses Fingers that no dents or scratches would be applied....*

    :P
    Uh....that's a big fat negative Ghostrider!!!
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

  15. #55
    Forum Member Frmboybuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Cornfields
    Posts
    524

    Default

    Responding...negative. In a properly supervised official training, I have no problems with a licensed explorer operating a tool OR a piece of apparatus
    Buck
    Assistant Chief/EMT-B

  16. #56
    Forum Member Natatha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    Uh....that's a big fat negative Ghostrider!!!
    LIEZ! I don't have to worry about you... I think it's Shawn that I really have to worry about.
    Mike Kelly
    Altoona Fire Department
    Explorer Post 800
    Altoona, Wisconsin

  17. #57
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    74

    Default

    Drive any form of vehicle absolutley not. You can be killed on any type of vehicle I for one wouldn't want to have to try and justify allowing explorers driving in court either.
    Last edited by madden01; 01-19-2009 at 10:29 AM. Reason: change mind

  18. #58
    Forum Member MTKROUSH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Hernando MS USA
    Posts
    558

    Default

    I hate to put this in these terms. It works something like this. If (huge IF) a Junior is for some brain fart allowed to drive any piece of equipment and he/she crashes out. He/she gets hurt and/or killed. Momma decides the appropriate course of action is to sue the pants off the Fire Department. That drives the decision making process of the only driving Juniors are allowed to do is the rest of us to drink. Hate it but that's how it works
    To err is human, To forgive divine and at times I am as much of both as you will ever find

  19. #59

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1

    Talking Driving the Apparatus?

    In My Department Junior's Are Not Allowed To Drive The Apparatus To Emergency Calls. They Are Allowed To Move Small Apparatus Such As Fire Police Car And Utility. The Juniors May Not Drive On The Road Unless A Chief Officer Gives Them The Permission To. A Junior Firefighter In Our Department Has To Also Be In The Station With A Senior Member At All Times So There Is No Reason Really To Drive.

    Once The Junior Member Becomes A Regular Firefighter Then He/she Is Allowed To Begin Driver Training On The Apparatus.

  20. #60
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    213

    Default

    In my department, the rules are that no juniors can drive apparatus, or anyone that has not been properly trained to drive the trucks, we dont own any ATVs, Boats or small vehicles, we dont even have a pick up truck. Although at 18 once we are no longer juniors we are able to take the training, although this does not mean we get the drive, we still have to have OK from the chief. Although most of the time we have operators who are also high ranking, so when it comes to who gets behind the wheel is usually a ranking officer who gets to decide.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. What are you driving?
    By Hexxus in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 01-22-2008, 04:37 PM
  2. Officers driving apparatus
    By E1E2TL3 in forum Career/Paid Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 01-10-2006, 02:34 PM
  3. Driving Course
    By Joebru in forum Emergency Vehicle Operations
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-12-2005, 09:12 PM
  4. drinking and driving apparatus
    By carpntir in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 02-02-2003, 03:02 PM
  5. Apparatus Operators Driving Dangerously
    By ffemt1034 in forum The Engineer
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-17-2000, 12:39 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts