It is quite obvious that the majority of the posts around are not run to BSA guidlines.
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Thread: explorers and apparatus driving
11-26-2008, 08:08 AM #41
11-26-2008, 02:34 PM #42
I find it funny that some recommend at least 19 to drive a Ranger. I know several 18 year olds driving pumpers and ambulances right this second. If you can drive a hummer for the army at 18, you can probably drive a Ranger.
Last edited by TNFF319; 11-26-2008 at 02:42 PM.FF/Paramedic
11-26-2008, 02:48 PM #43
Fire and Emergency Services Exploring: Safety Issues
There are some issues and hazards specific to Fire and Emergency Services Explorer programs that must be considered when organizing a post. These issues are fairly unique compared with other types of Explorer posts, being a direct result of the post's affiliation with the department and the potential for hazards.
Before engaging in any training activity or direct operational activities with the department, Exploring and/or department officials should investigate the legalities of Explorers participating in such activities. Most states have child labor laws that define what minors under the age of 18 may and may not participate in. Even though the individual may not be an actual member or employee of the department, these regulations may still apply. The following is a general list of guidelines that should be used for the formation of a post Explorer safety policy. As with any program, extremes of temperature, humidity, and other atmospheric conditions should be considered during any activity.
One issue that requires particular attention is what the Fire and Emergency Services Explorer will be allowed to do at the emergency scene. Many departments allow Explorers to respond on the apparatus with trained personnel. A solid policy must be established as to what the Explorer may and may not do once he or she arrives on the scene.
All policies must fit with departmental regulations, Learning for Life regulations, and state laws. All of these issues should be resolved in the post bylaws before Fire and Emergency Services Explorer activities begin. If you have any questions about the safety of an activity not listed, contact your local Learning for Life office.
* Explorers may not be substituted for trained personnel.
* Explorers must be equipped with personal protective equipment that is appropriate for the activity being done.
* Explorers may be mobilized only as a post, with required leadership. Explorers are not on call as individuals.
* Explorers who ride on apparatus or other department vehicles must be seated and must wear a seat belt.
* Explorers may not drive department vehicles.
* Explorers may not climb aerial ladders.
* Explorers may not climb ground ladders that exceed 35 feet in length, or not supported against a structure.
* Explorers may not enter or perform ventilation procedures on a burning structure.
* Explorers may not use any tools or gloves on energized electrical equipment.
* Explorers may not operate cutting torches
* Explorers may not operate hydraulic rescue tools or equipment.
* Explorers may not handle life nets.
* Exceptions: Using an official training facility, the use of aerial ladders with the appropriate safety equipment, and entering a controlled burn building is approved.
Proud member of the IACOJ
"I've got no respect for any young man who won't join the colors."
~Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, CSA
11-26-2008, 10:02 PM #44
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Green Bay
Apples to oranges regarding driving in the Army. There are many rules, regulations and training involved with the military and some kids driving a fire apparatus. The rules and regulations regarding explorers has been posted here twice and while some posts do things different, the general rules still should be followed. Just because someone is of legal driving age, doesn't mean they can, nor should be able to drive a fire apparatus, especially an explorer who isn't even a sworn member of a FD. It is one thing if a person is 18 and a sworm member of a fire department, then it is up to the department of how they operate.
And since you bring up the military, you could go back to the years' old debate about a soldier under 21 being able to drink. They can fight and die for the country, but they can't have a beer if under 21, not legally. So in the same sense, just because an explorer may be of driving age and have a license, doesn't mean they should drive a fire apparatus either. I have also never seen a dept with stricter rules about operating vehicles than set forth by the military.The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.
11-27-2008, 05:00 AM #45
Totally Unacceptable !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Whitehall Pa. USA
11-27-2008, 12:36 PM #46
Besides, most military's put their soldiers through the paces when they go on driver training for any vehicle. I know up here north of the border, our driving courses go pretty in depth when we learn a vehicle. We have to go on a course just to drive a military owned golf cart. I would expect the training standards would be much the same in the US.If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?
11-28-2008, 09:55 PM #47
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
i'd like to thank everyone for their response. It appears that the BSA guidelines cover it all. We decided at our safety committee meeting to deny the driving. Thanks again to lex and spiper. Just for back-up, do you know where I can find the penalties for any violations?
11-28-2008, 10:24 PM #48
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
The BSA relies on you as the leader to make sure their guidelines are followed. As to what they'd do if they found out we were doing more than what their guidelines say, I'm assuming they'd take our charter away from us... what else can they do?Firefighter/EMT
My words stated here do not necessarily point towards organizations which I am affiliated with.
12-24-2008, 04:15 AM #49
Only City employees can drive City vehicles.
Explorers are not City employees. Even if they were, we don't and wouldn't allow it.
12-24-2008, 11:09 PM #50
*Crosses Fingers that no dents or scratches would be applied....*
I totally agree, however, no explorer, regardless of age, should be allowed to drive a department vehicle. Hell, teens can barely handle cars at times, how the hell would they be able to handle a multi-hundred-thousand dollar vehicle.
Just doesn't make sense.Mike Kelly
Altoona Fire Department
Explorer Post 800
12-30-2008, 11:36 PM #51
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
you need to check your state Labor Laws. In CT, Juniors cannot operate anything until 18, however, we let them drive our Forest Rescue Vehicle (Club Car XRT) at work sessions as long as they have someone that is checked off to drive it with them.
In order to operate it at a call, you have to attend and pass a UTV training course. If anyone has the chance to take one, do it. We took ours with Ashmore Industries in Waterbury, CT.
12-31-2008, 10:40 PM #52
If it's department policy that Explorers, Juniors, Cadets or whatever else you want to call them don't drive then they don't drive anything that may be considered a department vehicle. There is a reason for the policy. It don't make sense that a Junior can't drive a Polaris Ranger when it's all together possible that they have one at the house and drive it all the time. Those are the policies.
This also takes the tendencies of teenagers out of play. You let them drive the Ranger then they want the Chief's car since it's not apparatus. Then they want the grass rig since most of them are 3/4 or 1 ton pick up trucks with skid units in them. Finally they push for the pumper. They will make the arguement that they have been with the department for x number of years and they have the requisite experience. Goes back to give an inch and they will try to take a mile.To err is human, To forgive divine and at times I am as much of both as you will ever find
01-05-2009, 06:07 PM #53
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
01-07-2009, 06:53 PM #54
01-07-2009, 09:48 PM #55
Responding...negative. In a properly supervised official training, I have no problems with a licensed explorer operating a tool OR a piece of apparatusBuck
01-09-2009, 03:19 PM #56
01-19-2009, 10:22 AM #57
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
Drive any form of vehicle absolutley not. You can be killed on any type of vehicle I for one wouldn't want to have to try and justify allowing explorers driving in court either.
Last edited by madden01; 01-19-2009 at 10:29 AM. Reason: change mind
01-20-2009, 11:43 PM #58
I hate to put this in these terms. It works something like this. If (huge IF) a Junior is for some brain fart allowed to drive any piece of equipment and he/she crashes out. He/she gets hurt and/or killed. Momma decides the appropriate course of action is to sue the pants off the Fire Department. That drives the decision making process of the only driving Juniors are allowed to do is the rest of us to drink. Hate it but that's how it worksTo err is human, To forgive divine and at times I am as much of both as you will ever find
01-21-2009, 10:03 AM #59
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Driving the Apparatus?
In My Department Junior's Are Not Allowed To Drive The Apparatus To Emergency Calls. They Are Allowed To Move Small Apparatus Such As Fire Police Car And Utility. The Juniors May Not Drive On The Road Unless A Chief Officer Gives Them The Permission To. A Junior Firefighter In Our Department Has To Also Be In The Station With A Senior Member At All Times So There Is No Reason Really To Drive.
Once The Junior Member Becomes A Regular Firefighter Then He/she Is Allowed To Begin Driver Training On The Apparatus.
01-21-2009, 09:53 PM #60
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
In my department, the rules are that no juniors can drive apparatus, or anyone that has not been properly trained to drive the trucks, we dont own any ATVs, Boats or small vehicles, we dont even have a pick up truck. Although at 18 once we are no longer juniors we are able to take the training, although this does not mean we get the drive, we still have to have OK from the chief. Although most of the time we have operators who are also high ranking, so when it comes to who gets behind the wheel is usually a ranking officer who gets to decide.
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