Thread: Rank structure

  1. #1

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    Default Rank structure

    I was wondering if anyone out there has seen a rank structure like this one, it is one we have just gone to recently.

    1 Chief
    2 Deputy Chiefs- 1 special operations, 1 operations
    4 Assistant chiefs- 2 operations, 1 fire prevention, 1 training
    4 station chiefs (formerly called station captains)
    14 captains (formerly called crew chiefs or lieutenants)
    16 lieutenants who are drivers and were formerly called firefighters but had no title
    18 firefighters

    Captains and station chiefs are also refered to as company officers but lieutenants are not considered as such.

  2. #2
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    Thats is an awful lot of officers. I count 41 officers to 18 FF's. 11 Chiefs?
    Seems a little top heavy but if it works for you go with it. My Dept is

    1 Chief
    1 Deputy Chief
    2 Assistant Chiefs
    4 Shift Chiefs
    4 Captains
    28 Lieutenants
    100 FF's

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    Our rank structure:
    Chief of Department
    4 Deputy Chiefs (one each group)
    4 Captains (one each group)
    8 Lieutenants (2 each group)
    15 Firefighters per group.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    My new FD...
    1 Chief
    4 Lieutenant Colonels
    1 Field Ops. Major
    7 Battalion Chiefs
    40+ Vol. Chiefs
    Captains Career and Vol.
    Lieutenants Career and Vol.
    Vol. Sergeants
    Career Firefighter/Paramedics
    Firefighters Career and Vol.
    Probies

    My current FD
    1 Chief
    1 D/C
    1 Captain
    4 Lieutenants
    A/O Firefighter/EMT
    Firefighter/Paramedic
    Firefighter/EMT
    Firefighter
    Probie
    "I don't wanna hear about it... I wanna see results!!!":-P

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    I agree, seems like a lot of officers. However, also as was said whatever works.

    Ours is:

    Chief
    Battalion Chiefs (half operational, half support)
    Lieutenants (one over each crew at each station), also one over PR and public ed, and another in charge of EMS.
    Driver Engineers on each rig that can work "out of class" as a lieutenant but aren't considered an officer unless filling that role
    Firefighters
    "...When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you." Isaiah 43:2

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    Combo Department ...

    Chief - Volunteer
    Deputy Chief - Volunteer
    Assistant Chief - Paid, Monday-Friday 8-5
    Station Captains - 1 Paid/4 Volunteer
    Rescue Captain - Volunteer
    Maintainence Captain - Volunteer
    Senior Firefighters - 8 Volunteer/ 2 Paid Fulltime

    One assigned to each truck as an "engineer"
    responsible for truck checks and acts as company-level
    supervisors on the fireground.

    Firefighters
    Probationary Firefighters
    Support Personnel
    Junior Firefighters
    Dispatchers


    Rank of captain and senior firefighter is assigned on volunteer side. All 4 fulltime members are required to volunteer in off-hours. Captains positions are posted when they become open and volunteers and paid personnel can apply. There is no requirement to have a capatain on each shift ..in the case of one is just happened to work out that way.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 11-24-2008 at 10:53 PM.

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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    All 4 fulltime members are required to volunteer in off-hours.
    When you say "volunteer," do you mean that the career guys have to -- as a condition of their employment -- work for free when off duty? Because everything I've ever read says that's illegal. Just saying.

    As for my department, we have...
    1 - Fire Chief
    1 - Division Chief / Fire Marshal
    6 - Captains (Two companies, three platoons)
    6 - Engineers
    9 - Firefighters

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    Combo Dept.

    Chief-Career
    2 Deputy's-Volunteer
    3 Battalion Chiefs-Volunteer
    3 Captains-Volunteer
    3 Captains-Career (1 per shift)
    3 Lieutenants-Volunteer
    9 Firefighters-Career (3 per shift)
    40 Firefighters-Volunteer

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    All 4 fulltime members are required to volunteer in off-hours.


    cozmosis you are right. Can't make a paid employee volunteer for free. Overtime yes but FLSA forbids forcing an employee to volunteer. They can actually sue for back time if that is the case and we didn't misunderstand.
    "...When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you." Isaiah 43:2

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    I can see this getting into a two-hatter debate quickly, with that last comment, so I'll try to get it back on topic.

    Combo department

    1 Chief
    2 Dep. Chiefs
    2 Asst. Chiefs
    4 Captains
    8 Lieutenants
    45 (approx) firefighters

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    sounds like someone just has a hard on for handing out bugles. I don't see the need to start calling all of these people officer titles.


    The way we work:

    Chief
    Deputy Chief
    Battalion Chief
    Captain (one assigned to each company and ultimately responsible for it)
    Lieutenants (assigned to the other shifts, oversees their rig on their shift)
    Firefighters

    do not have any special position for the apparatus operator. sometimes one guy at a company will do all or most of the driving, others the members will rotate. I could definitely see the advantages. It would make it practical to provide a higher level of training (please don't try to twist this all of you that will howl about training) if you are training just dedicated operators, vs trying to get all the firefighters through advanced driver training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hefightsfire99 View Post
    cozmosis you are right. Can't make a paid employee volunteer for free. Overtime yes but FLSA forbids forcing an employee to volunteer. They can actually sue for back time if that is the case and we didn't misunderstand.
    This is true but there may be ways to get around it if they want to volunteer.

    example:

    I know of some combo depts where the full time people are paid city employees. However, the volunteer side of things is a complete and seperate entity such as fire district or association. Now, when the voulunteers are volunreering they are not actually working for the city. They are working (volunteering) for a different organization than the one that signs their paychecks and employs them. I have checked on legality of this and is legal and is done. These people are not being forced to volunteer extra hours. In most case they were volunteers on the dept before it went combo and they still want to volunteer their time.
    Last edited by malana1; 11-26-2008 at 07:03 AM.

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    In the structure in the OP's dept, the only real officers are at station cheif and above. Everyone else is just a shift supervisor or below. When you look at it that way the ratio isnt so bad.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Here is our Rank Structure:

    8 to 5:

    1- Chief of Dept.
    1- Asst. Chief of Admin
    1- Asst. Chief of Operations
    1- Batt. Chief over Training
    1- Batt. Chief over EMS

    24/48 Shift personal (These are per shift so the total numbers are x3)

    2- Batt Chief's (1 per district)
    10- Captains (1 per Eng/Truck)
    1- EMS Captain
    14- Driver Engineers (no Capt. on Medic units)
    14- Firefighters (1 per Eng/Truck/Medic)
    A "Good" fire is not measured by how big it is, but by the fact that everyone is going home safe, and that we possibly learned something new about firefighting. Member:IACOJ

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    Yes, that is correct.

    We only hire from within. Everyone who applies knows the way the system runs.

    The chiefs are to the best of my knowledge, aware of the law.

  16. #16
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    The RFD.
    Chief
    Deputy Chief
    Division Chiefs
    Battalion Chiefs
    Captains
    Engineers
    Firefighters/medics

  17. #17
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    Thumbs up Actually................

    Quote Originally Posted by CooterRob View Post
    My new FD...
    1 Chief
    4 Lieutenant Colonels
    1 Field Ops. Major
    7 Battalion Chiefs
    40+ Vol. Chiefs
    Captains Career and Vol.
    Lieutenants Career and Vol.
    Vol. Sergeants
    Career Firefighter/Paramedics
    Firefighters Career and Vol.
    Probies

    My current FD
    1 Chief
    1 D/C
    1 Captain
    4 Lieutenants
    A/O Firefighter/EMT
    Firefighter/Paramedic
    Firefighter/EMT
    Firefighter
    Probie

    By saying your "New FD" I presume you are getting hired by them??......

    The Structure looks glaringly familiar to me...

    If I'm right, Welcome Aboard. Your numbers are close, BUT.... Battalions 1,2,3,4, and 5 are Shift jobs, so that totals 20 Chiefs, Battalions 6 & 7 are Daywork jobs, so that's 2 more, and there is a Battalion Chief each for Training, EMS, Professional Standards, Prevention, and Investigations. As to the Majors, There is one per Shift (4) in Suppression Ops, and one each for Training, EMS, Safety, Prevention & Investigations, Special Ops, and Support Services. Field Ops also has a Major and 10 Division Chiefs who are Volunteers, along with Volunteer Battalion Chiefs in the 6th & 7th Battalions.
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    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

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    Ours: Chief
    1 ***'t Chief(Deputy)
    4 District Chief's(one for each station)
    10 Captains (one for each piece)
    80 Rank and file FF'S

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    Everyone is paid on call except the Chief who is career...

    1 Chief (Director of Public Safety, police chief and fire chief)
    1 Assistant Chief
    1 Captain
    5 Lieutenants
    35 Firefighters
    7 Explorers
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

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    Default here we go

    All volunteer (for now)

    1 Chief
    1 Deputy Chief
    1 Asst. Chief (training chief)
    2 fire captains
    1 EMS captain
    2 fire lieutenants
    2 EMS lieutenants
    1 Water rescue lieutenant
    33 firefighters

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by malana1 View Post
    This is true but there may be ways to get around it if they want to volunteer.

    example:

    I know of some combo depts where the full time people are paid city employees. However, the volunteer side of things is a complete and seperate entity such as fire district or association. Now, when the voulunteers are volunreering they are not actually working for the city. They are working (volunteering) for a different organization than the one that signs their paychecks and employs them. I have checked on legality of this and is legal and is done. These people are not being forced to volunteer extra hours. In most case they were volunteers on the dept before it went combo and they still want to volunteer their time.
    That's not what was said. "All 4 fulltime members are required to volunteer in off-hours." Can't require an employee to volunteer.
    "...When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you." Isaiah 43:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    All 4 fulltime members are required to volunteer in off-hours.
    Just curious, what is the requirement? Do they restrict off-duty time to require them to come in? According to this paragraph (553.221(D))from the Dept. of Labor, if they've got set requirements restricting off-duty time, they should be compensated:

    (d) An employee who is not required to remain on the employer's
    premises but is merely required to leave word at home or with company
    officials where he or she may be reached is not working while on call.
    Time spent at home on call may or may not be compensable depending on
    whether the restrictions placed on the employee preclude using the time
    for personal pursuits.
    Where, for example, a firefighter has returned
    home after the shift, with the understanding that he or she is expected
    to return to work in the event of an emergency in the night, such time
    spent at home is normally not compensable. On the other hand, where the
    conditions placed on the employee's activities are so restrictive that
    the employee cannot use the time effectively for personal pursuits, such
    time spent on call is compensable.
    FTM-PTB-RFB
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  23. #23
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    Ours is as follows:

    Chief
    Assistant Chiefs (Shift level, serves as shift commanders and covers one battalion)
    Division Chiefs (staff level)
    Battalion Chiefs (for the other battalion and one for training)
    Captains (one per rig and a couple for training)
    FAOs (driver)
    FFs and FF/Medics
    FTM-PTB-RFB
    IACOJ

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    1 Chief
    9 Assist Chiefs
    4 Deputy Chiefs
    84+ District Chiefs
    170+ Senior Captains (trucks)
    400+ Captains (engines)
    1004+ Engineer operators (Engines, trucks, ambulances)
    1600+ Firefighters

    Not an exact number but you get the point
    "DON'T GO IN THERE!!! DON'T YOU KNOW THERE IS A FIRE IN THERE!!!!"

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