Petzl ID Belay
Question for the tech group... has anyone looked really closely about the parameters around using a Petzl ID as a replacement for Tandem Prussiks on the belay line, in a double rope system.
Talking with a rescue instructor from the UK, they use the ID on both their load and belay lines. This enables them to have a mirror image systems on both load and belay side, this gives them the ability to haul on either system, and makes the transfer from raise to lower very painless.
Thanks in advance
As long as everyone is familiar with the ID It's use is fine. The ID is new by me because it just got its NFPA rating. Before that we were not allowed to use it because of "liability concerns"
I have used it for personal evolutions for around 5 years and trust and like it a lot.
It is a good device. What I like about it is you don't need a separate device for lowering. During a haul if the belay gets the load and it needs to be lowered, you simply use the ID and lower the load. No load release hitch, no switching to a rack, or using the device against it's inteneded design (like using the 540 to lower)
I understand and agree with what you are saying. (Let me start with that)
Some of the older rope guys are probaly cringing at the thought that a belay may be converted to a main support rope at any point. i have heard many guys through the years say, once the belay is made the belay it stays as the belay. Just another thought of how things should be done.
I don't necessarily disagree with this stance, but an more inclined to say never say never. In all reality the belay is (or at least should be) built as strong as the mainline. Why should they not be interchangable?
I like the concept that both lines can be rigged identical. My problem with the new devices is that they are just so expensive. My department isn't going to spend $250 on a device, when a $70 device is just as capable.
I am not very familiar with the ID. I know you cannot pass knots through it, but do you have to completely disconnect it from the system to pass one?
Yes,you have to open the id to pass a knot.
I am for the prussic and for the ID, though the ID is not perfect for a rescue load (14KN).
Reason I`m for the prussic is that should the main line brake and cause a shock load on the belay, the prussic`s will slide a bit and thus act like a shock absorber.
We rather use the SRT noworries.
Thanx for all the mentioned info.
The old Blue ID-20's were rated for 14 kN (I take it this is the device your talking about as you would be using it on 1/2" line which the Gold ID cannot be used on), the Red G Rated ID'20's are the ones you require, these are rated at 22 kN.
Originally Posted by MATTraining
Regarding the prusiks sliding...in theory the ID is meant to act the same.
I say in theory though, now of course this is all dependant on environmental conditions, type of line, loads etc.
Now depending on your anchor system rigging, there are ways to alleviate the sudden forces involved during a Belay event - Soft Interface.
Thats the great thing about Tech Rope Rescue.....always learning.
I agree. It really comes down to fundamental techniques, though. In Europe, the common technique is that not only are both systems interchangeable, but they are almost always identical.
Originally Posted by skennedy4
That means that both lines use identical belay & haul devices at the same time, both are set to belay & haul at the same time, and both lines are actually LOADED at the same time. The only difference is that on a haul, you put the winch/MA/other on one of the two (doesn't matter which - just look for which is rigged in a better position for the task) while someone just pulls in rope on the other to avoid slack unless the MA needs to move over for whatever reason.
The biggest difference between the two would probably be seen in the case of a failure that resulted in a sudden transfer of load from one rope to the other. On the other hand, it means that switching from belay to haul requires actions on both ropes.