1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    276

    Default Annual phsical agility

    We are a small career dept and currently we do a annual physical with a physician and then a stress test that invovles wearing full PPE including SCBA breathing air and do a course of chopping climbing ladders, resting for 3 minutes, carring hose. This test is different. I understand the CPAP is for entry level and not designed for a annual test. Looking for ideas on a annual physical agillity test for us, i dont really agree with our agility and need some ideas thanks.

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    hefightsfire99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    161

    Default

    What don't you like about your test?
    "...When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you." Isaiah 43:2

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Schenectady, NY
    Posts
    464

    Default

    Any test you use should be legally defensible. The 1st time an incumbent fails the test, you can bet you will be headed to court.
    Stephen J Bourassa
    Latham FD (NY)
    member since 1969
    challenge competitor since 1993

  4. #4
    Let's talk fire trucks!
    BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,328

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firebill911 View Post
    We are a small career dept and currently we do a annual physical with a physician and then a stress test that invovles wearing full PPE including SCBA breathing air and do a course of chopping climbing ladders, resting for 3 minutes, carring hose. This test is different. I understand the CPAP is for entry level and not designed for a annual test. Looking for ideas on a annual physical agillity test for us, i dont really agree with our agility and need some ideas thanks.
    Quick note: CPAP helps people breathe better, CPAT makes you feel like you can't breathe afterwards.

    As the previous poster said, what don't you like about it, and what improvements would you like? Remember that the department might (or might not) have specific reasons that they prefer to do this particular test.

    For years, my department used the FF Combat Challenge that had to be completed in a particular time frame that just about anyone of any decent physical fitness could do. That might be a starting point...
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  5. #5
    Let's talk fire trucks!
    BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,328

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitguy51 View Post
    Any test you use should be legally defensible. The 1st time an incumbent fails the test, you can bet you will be headed to court.
    I don't know if I agree with this 100%. I don't doubt that the test could go into litigation if someone failed, but I would like to think that the test (and the department) would have measures in place to ensure that the chance of this would be minimized.

    You could re-test at a later date, go into mandatory physical training, etc, etc, etc.

    Of course, I guess this would be part of the contract for most states, something we don't have to concern ourselves with in Virginia.
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    hefightsfire99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    I don't know if I agree with this 100%. I don't doubt that the test could go into litigation if someone failed, but I would like to think that the test (and the department) would have measures in place to ensure that the chance of this would be minimized.

    You could re-test at a later date, go into mandatory physical training, etc, etc, etc.

    Of course, I guess this would be part of the contract for most states, something we don't have to concern ourselves with in Virginia.
    Sad our world has gotten to where it has. It's true though, that's why the CPAT development was so crazy complex and took so long to conceive. It had to be developed and evaluated and validated and blah blah blah. Also as Fitguy has mentioned in other threads, the IAFF/IAFC wellness task force have tried forever albeit unsuccessfully to make an IPAT but the legal crap had held it up.
    Last edited by hefightsfire99; 12-06-2008 at 05:05 PM.
    "...When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you." Isaiah 43:2

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Schenectady, NY
    Posts
    464

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hefightsfire99 View Post
    Also as Fitguy has mentioned in other threads, the IAFF/IAFC wellness task force have tried forever albeit unsuccessfully to make an IPAT but the legal crap had held it up.
    Actually it came about after the Combat Challenge was put into what I believe was the 1st round of NFPA 1583. There were a couple of groups that thought it set the bar too high. The Challenge was developed as the result of some chiefs asking some researchers to develop a test for them using fire ground skills. The competitiveness of human beings helped to make it the game it is today. Training for it or the CPAT will make you better at them.
    Stephen J Bourassa
    Latham FD (NY)
    member since 1969
    challenge competitor since 1993

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    276

    Wink more

    well part of the test is to take a small weight bar that weighs 50 lbs and touch the ground with it and bring it up to your chin 25 times. Not bad have had two FF's have a back strain from it, and it is designed to finish with a certain amount of air in scba bottle in order to pass, well a large frame guy like me, i suck some air compared to my captain you is a small frame person and runs marathins, it the past me and other large frame guys almost or barely passed. Seems to be standard for all and the test has been used for over 20 years no one knows who designed it or how you do one. and there is a plan in place if you dont pass it. Trying to find a standard, was going to use CPAT be i read that it was not designed for a annual agility test, so????

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Schenectady, NY
    Posts
    464

    Default

    I don't think your captain uses less air cause of his size but because of his aerobic capacity. Yes, size does have some effect on how long a tank lasts, but your aerobic capacity will effect it too.
    Stephen J Bourassa
    Latham FD (NY)
    member since 1969
    challenge competitor since 1993

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    Firechickk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    30

    Default

    All I know is that I love my 2216psi bottle. I swear it is magic. I went toe to toe with the 4500 psi bottles and even beat quite a few...

    course I also run at least 2 miles a day... Working up for that 3 miles a day...

    My Lt. kept asking me if I even breathed. I smiled and kept on going.
    -------------------

    Failure is not an option!

    http://firemidget.blogspot.com/

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    hefightsfire99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Firechickk View Post
    All I know is that I love my 2216psi bottle. I swear it is magic. I went toe to toe with the 4500 psi bottles and even beat quite a few...

    course I also run at least 2 miles a day... Working up for that 3 miles a day...

    My Lt. kept asking me if I even breathed. I smiled and kept on going.
    Were they both 30 minute bottles?
    "...When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you." Isaiah 43:2

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    276

    Default Cardio shape

    what is the best cardio training for someone who is starting from ground zero, and presummed to be in good health?

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    joejoe33's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Rowlett,Texas,U.S.A.
    Posts
    185

    Default

    Here's a link to our Job Task Simulation test.

    http://documents.rowlett.com/Fire%20...er%20point.pdf
    joejoe33

    Comments and opinions are mine and do not represent the agency or IAFF local that I am affiliated with.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    276

    Default Joe

    Joe is this a annual physical for all members, considered doing it on air?

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    joejoe33's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Rowlett,Texas,U.S.A.
    Posts
    185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firebill911 View Post
    Joe is this a annual physical for all members, considered doing it on air?

    This is the annual agility test for all members. Administration hired an outside firm to validate the test based on our job description and demographics of our city. This is also the new hire test. The test is NOT performed while on SCBA breathing air. The annual test does NOT include the aerial climb.

    We used to do the JTS on breathing air years ago.

    Administration used to administer this test to return to work if a fire fighter missed three consecutive shifts of work sick. The test had to be passed for a fire fighter to be "fit" for duty and return to work. The test was required even if you had a doctors excuse. That rule has been done away with and now administration will accept a medical doctors excuse to return to work.

    The only difference I see in the JTS testing between the annual test and the new hires test is that the new hire candidates get to wear atheletic shoes and must climb the aerial ladder. Our fire fighting boots are leather with either steel or composite toes and shanks. In my opinion there is a difference when testing with lighter footwear i.e.atheletic shoes. The weight of the dummy was also reduced. Our JTS is NOT age based. Administration has exempted themselves from taking the annual JTS testing. The JTS testing is a very controversal topic of discussion in our firehouses.

    On a more positive note, the city does provide medical stress testing and heart and lung scans for the fire fighters. The medical stress tests ARE age based.
    joejoe33

    Comments and opinions are mine and do not represent the agency or IAFF local that I am affiliated with.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. no test no agility
    By jcgafford in forum Hiring & Employment Discussion
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 07-26-2007, 10:39 PM
  2. firefighter agility
    By Dogger3 in forum Hiring & Employment Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-15-2007, 12:12 AM
  3. ri agility
    By panic66 in forum Rhode Island
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-18-2007, 03:19 PM
  4. New Haven Agility
    By Whaler in forum Connecticut
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-14-2007, 04:51 PM
  5. Annual Employee Physical Agility Tests
    By firemedicak in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-19-2004, 05:30 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register