Thread: FF Licensing

  1. #26
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,802

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trizahler26 View Post
    Nameless,

    I can see your frustration but let us keep the conversation at a higher level. Leaders in the fire service lurk on these boards, who knows maybe we could utilize this thread to inform our leaders public and private.

    Though to do so will require many replies from everyone; the more respectful, tactful, fact based replies we can garner the more impact it will have on public and private leadership.

    I do apprecite you passionate response, but let us stick to the facts.

    what do you mean? How at all was my comment bring the conversation down to a lower level. It appears you aren't used to having discussions with firemen. There's nothing in my post that is controversial or would be seen as insulting. Everything I have said can be backed up by facts.

    I appreciate your odd response, but don't try to be the mommy of the discussion

  2. #27
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Lusby, MD
    Posts
    1,035

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Sorry but a college degree doesn't prove anything of value to me. If you want to hire smarter people, make the test harder. You want better educators, make public speaking part of the test or training.

    My point is, what do you want out of the prerequisites?

    Right now I can explain how every perquisite our FD has directly impacts the position. We do not require a degree but do recognize it monetarily.

    I've worked with plenty of guys with and without degrees, some are better than others, but the degree rarely is the tipping point. And AS degrees in Fire Science? Unless it's one of a few great schools: Next to useless. In the time spent going to school, a new firefighter can learn the same information with practical application and gain experience to boot.

    I'm not against degrees, just show me what you think you'll gain. I'd still rather have guys with GED's, some mechanical aptitude and a work ethic than most of the college grad FFer's I've seen in recent years.
    I agree with RFDACM02 regarding the value of a degree in the fire service. Not that a degree is necessarily bad, but it doesn't guarantee a good firefighter.

    There are minimum requirements to go interior around here, its FF1. Not that it guarantees a good firefighter, but no required training or license will guarantee good results. My county also has progressive training requirements as you move up in rank. These requirements serve as a licensing if you want to call it that.

  3. #28
    Forum Member
    CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,257

    Default

    The fact is that most departments give a written entrance and physical type test, that any one that had more than three grains of sense can pass it and may get hired, providing that their background isn't that bad to keep them off the department.

    Having a degree before you test and are hired is a plus for you. Getting an AA while you are in your first 5 years or so will be a great plus for you getting promoted.

    I have no idea how Minnesota runs their operation or even how the fire departments up there operate only what I read in the papers about one a year back.

    One thing I do know trizahler26 is that your profile doesn't indicated if you are in the fire service or not. I was probably doing this job several years before you were thought of, but in any case, you come in here and ask a question and the members have provided some answers to you. Take it as it is and move on. Don't insult these guys for taking their time to give you an answer, by giving some snippy replay!

    K
    Last edited by CaptOldTimer; 12-08-2008 at 03:47 PM.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  4. #29
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Thumbs up Well..........

    One thing that we have NOT addressed (or I missed it,) is the inherent differences in the jobs that we are discussing. A Paramedic practices Medicine. Fact. So, the requirements for that position should reflect the educational level that is needed for one to do the job. A Police Officer (sort of) practices Law. An Officer who is engaged in the work of apprehending and charging a felon is also involved in building the case against that person, and must be able to function well in that arena (Jason, George, any other LEO wish to weigh in on this point?) Firefighters have jobs that move in other areas, and the requirements are, and should be, different. Also, Firefighting is the field that uses the largest percentage of Volunteers of anything out there. Police, Libraries, Schools, Parks and Recreation, and other Government and Private organizations all use Volunteers in some form, in some areas, but none comes anywhere close to the Fire Service. That point alone makes changing or extending educational requirements a very difficult position to justify. Personally, I have a lengthly Training resume', but no degree, and I do not see any advantage to having one. In the years that I have left to serve in an active role in Field Operations, my National Pro Board Fire Officer IV Certificate will suffice........

    Outside of the Fire Service, I have a question about College Degrees in general: Why does everyone think that a Degree is so absolutely necessary?? There are a lot of Jobs that do not, and shouldn't require a Degree, and those jobs pay better than most "Degreed" positions. Case in point: I went thru Jr. and Sr. High School with a guy who I'll call Jimmy. After High School Jimmy went on to College and got a Degree in an Engineering field. A month out of School I went to work in a Firefighting Position with our State Forestry Service. Jimmy had a series of positions in his field, but didn't last for a career in any of them. He'd work for a firm for a few years, they would lose a contract or finish up a job, Jimmy would be laid off (fired) and be looking again. I changed Jobs twice, both in Firefighting, and got a full retirement at age 43, enjoying every step of the way. Both of us are now 67, I'm enjoying doing exactly whatever I want to do, He's clerking in a Building Supply Store, still trying to find some stability. And, then there's Richie, who went to School with us. He dropped out in the 11th grade, and tried a few things, ending up as an "Over the Road" Truck Driver. Today, I still see him from time to time, and he's no longer Driving, except at his VFD. Since he now owns the Trucking Company, his 30 some drivers do the work on the road, he spends his time in the office and in doing good deeds in the Community. I guess my point is that the road to success isn't always paved with sheepskin.
    Last edited by hwoods; 12-08-2008 at 05:57 PM.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  5. #30
    Forum Member
    DonSmithnotTMD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Fayetteville, N.C.
    Posts
    407

    Default

    Maybe because the only people who think degrees are necessary are those who have them. Probably because it makes them feel like they've achieved something and are much more intelligent than everybody else.

    "there are no volunteer police officers."

    Sure there is. They're called a reserve. A lot of them paid for their initial training out of their own pockets.
    I am a highly trained professional and can find my :: expletive deleted:: with either hand in various light conditions.

  6. #31
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,802

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSmithnotTMD View Post
    Maybe because the only people who think degrees are necessary are those who have them. Probably because it makes them feel like they've achieved something and are much more intelligent than everybody else.

    thats a pretty large assumption.

  7. #32
    Forum Member
    GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,064

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSmithnotTMD View Post
    Maybe because the only people who think degrees are necessary are those who have them. Probably because it makes them feel like they've achieved something and are much more intelligent than everybody else.
    Sounds like someone is a little discontent against people who have the initiative to get a degree and better themselves.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  8. #33
    Let's talk fire trucks!
    BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSmithnotTMD View Post
    Maybe because the only people who think degrees are necessary are those who have them. Probably because it makes them feel like they've achieved something and are much more intelligent than everybody else.
    Everyone with a degree thinks they're smarter than everyone else? Huh?
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  9. #34
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,959

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSmithnotTMD View Post

    "there are no volunteer police officers."

    Sure there is. They're called a reserve. A lot of them paid for their initial training out of their own pockets.
    There may be some volunteer police officers out there, but you touched on a very important point in your reply. How many communities rely on volunteer police officers to provide primary police services? I'd bet very, very few. In the places that I'm familiar with that have "reserve" officers, they seem to be utilized only in a "security" type function rather than an actual "patrol" function.

    How many communities rely on volunteer firefighters for primary fire protection services?

    Maybe that has something to do with the difference in training and funding?

  10. #35
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Dickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,111

    Default

    I see some very good points and some totally wrong information.

    First of all, there are several places across the country that have "volunteer" or "reserve" police officers and rely on them quite heavy. However, it does seem to be more in the rural areas of the midwest or in the upper east coast is mainly where they use them. Quite often the small towns in my county rely on reserve deputies for their towns when they had sickness, vacation, injury leave, etc. If it wasn't for the reserves, they wouldn't have law enforcement.

    Most reserve corps. (I'll call them reserves) are state certified police officers just like the full time guys except they are part time, get very little wage or none at all. My personal experience as a reserve for 6 years was first we were total volunteer. Not a dime paid to us. The Sheriff's Office paid for our training during night classes in exchange for several years of good service. Then FSLA came in and said we had to be paid so we were paid minimum wage. The reserves around my area were used in all kinds of capacities. In my department we were used to fill vacancies due to vacation, sickness, etc. in all divisions; Jail, Bailiff, and Patrol. Each area required different training and it was exactly the same as the full time staff. We were used for special events, undercover work, drug enforcement, any special enforcement (such as traffic, ordinance, or special projects and grants), alcohol enforcement, SWAT support, intensive patrol, public education, and natural disasters too. Basically we were the Sheriff's posse, to be called up and used for anything that needed special attention with more staffing.

    Why would anyone do that part time you might ask? It is for the new guys trying to get into a full time position but also for the people who don't want a career in it, the retired people, the people who want to be part time. Personally, I thought it was fun to take a car and go patrol whenever and wherever I wanted. I had some great training and great experiences too.

    Second...and to address your questions.

    Law enforcement and the fire service are two totally different fields that happen to cross paths and happen to be at the same place but doing two totally different functions during an emergency. In just about everywhere in the country, law enforcement is a full time job. Some departments are supplemented with part time officers or reserves but most places, even the smallest towns, have at least one full time position. Conversely, most places have a volunteer or part-time/paid on call fire department and the minority of places have a full time department. This is the main reason for state and federal grant money is more for law enforcement. Another reason is that law enforcement takes more time. There are always things going on for police to handle, and once in a while, something for the fire department to handle. There are simply more law enforcement calls.

    Crimefighting is also a tangible thing. You can see results of enforcement with crime rates that go up or down and public opinion. When crime goes up, people think it's aweful and want more cops on the street. When crime goes down, they think "man, we got too many cops, all they do is eat donuts all day." Fire prevention isn't tangible. People think that because there are no fires, we don't need a fire department. People think because there are no fires they have a great fire prevention program. No....it's simply that you have been lucky and your day will come. The spotlight is only on the fire service when there is a big fire, then people expect you to be there within 2 minutes and if not, they question why they don't have a full time fire department. Basically it is public perception that the fire department is a good ole boys drinking club.

    As far as training....most fire service training is geared toward the volunteer fire service. Less hours and just the basics. At least in Wisconsin, all firefighters, full time, part time, or volunteer need the basic state certification. Like people said, every department is different in what they require. At least there is a minimum standard of training statewide. One big difference in training is that law enforcement needs more training because they deal with more aspects. They need firearms, law, defense and arrest tactics, EVOC, baton/OC/taser training, basic investigation, etc. Then they can specialize in areas. Basic fire training doesn't take as long and isn't as many topics. Likewise, after the basics are done then they can specialize too.

    The point I'm making is that you can't really compare the two. They are two totally different job functions and the public perception between the two is 100% different. When I used to tell people I am a fireman, they said "wow, that's really cool." When I used to tell people I was a cop they looked at me funny, stepped back and said "oh, I see" as they raised an eyebrow. Everyone loves firemen but hates cops.

    I do like the idea of a NATIONAL fire service standard of training however the dynamics of firefighting varies from region to region. The demographics are totally different too. There is no need for me to learn how fight fires in a skyscraper like FDNY does everyday when the tallest building in my area is 3 stories tall. There is no reason for DCFD to learn how to fight wildland fires like LAFD does. Yes, some background and some basics about all aspects should be required and are taught now, as it should be. But...the US is different it wouldn't work like in the UK or some other places.
    Last edited by Dickey; 12-09-2008 at 01:39 AM.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

  11. #36
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Dickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,111

    Default

    Oh, and I totally agree with what Chief Harve said too.


    (sorry I got wordy)
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

  12. #37
    B Shifter
    rjtoc2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Dallas/Fort Worth
    Posts
    209

    Default

    In Texas, the Texas Commission on Fire Protection is our certifying agency. Each discipline, such as fire suppression, fire investigation, ARFF, and etc. has four (4) levels of certification - basic, intermediate, advanced, and master.

    To apply for basic ceritification in Texas, an individual must complete a 468-hour curriculum, hold Emergency Care Attendant (ECA) or higher certification from the Texas Department of Health (or equivalent emergency responder training), and pass the commission examination (written and performance).

    Once certified as "basic" in whatever discipline(s) you hold, you may progress to higher levels of your discipline through a combination of experience, training, and education.

    For example, a basic structural firefighter may advance to an intermediate firefighter, advanced firefighter, and ultimately to a master firefighter. A master firefighter must have "12" years of certified service and and 60 hours of college - 18 hours of which must be in fire science courses.
    rjtoc2

    career Fire Captain
    IAFF member
    Native Texan (by way of New Orleans)


    ***The above post (s) is/are MY opinion and do/does not necessarily reflect the views, positions, or opinions of neither my employer nor my IAFF Local.***

    Admit nothing, deny everything, demand proof, and make counter accusations.

    A lack of planning on your behalf does NOT create an emergency on my behalf.

    When all is said and done, alot more is said than done

  13. #38
    Forum Member
    BearTech's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Seattle WA USA
    Posts
    39

    Default You wonder where he got that assumption?

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Sounds like someone is a little discontent against people who have the initiative to get a degree and better themselves.
    GTRider245 wrote in response to :

    "Quote:
    Originally Posted by DonSmithnotTMD View Post
    Maybe because the only people who think degrees are necessary are those who have them. Probably because it makes them feel like they've achieved something and are much more intelligent than everybody else."

    ******
    I don't have a degree. Not everyone needs a college to "better themselves". In fact your statement is exactly why DonSmithnotTMD may feel that people with education are stuck up in some way. And I knew plenty of people when I was in college who did NOTHING to make themselves a "better" person in their years at school. Yeah they got a degree, and yes they probably make more than most at their first "real" job. But I would never consider them "better" than many of my FD co-workers who didn't have degrees. I had 9 years at a small-medium sized department making 60K a year. I moved to Seattle and took a job with the cable company making 24K a year. I trained myself in computers and now make 70K a year as an I.T. professional with the Fire Department, all in just 4 years. I'm just using salaries as a way to gauge how quickly I moved up in I.T. without a degree. Degrees and schooling do not make people better, only people can make themselves better. The other supposed purpose of a degree is so that you are exposed to something other than what you are majoring in. My interests, reading, and knowledge of the "liberal arts" is far more rounded than most of the people I know with degrees.

    My take on it? Make the written harder but don't require a degree to apply. DO require further schooling to promote or get higher pay. Anyone who has worked shift knows that firefighters more than ANY other profession have the time to do some sort of schooling. I've worked with guys who ran all sorts of businesses on their off time. I have no problem with that, but if you are a full time career firefighter for a department of any decent size and pay, you need to remember what your "real" job is. If you have time to run a plumbing business or a contracting business, what ever it is, then you have time to get some sort of degree in a Fire related field.

    I think that sometimes too much importance is placed on having just ANY Bachelors degree. If it's something applicable to the fire service, great, if not... They don't hire I.T. professionals with English degrees unless they can show that they have the computer experience and knowledge needed to do the job.

    To the person who said that some of these people may not feel challenged at their job as a firefighter, I can't agree more. We had a chief of Operations who had a chip on his shoulder about firefighters participating in anything other than going on calls, training, or polishing the engine. I went to him to let him know that I wanted to help our 1 person I.T. staff with anything that was needed to move the department forward tech-wise. We were close to getting MDT in the vehicles, and they were starting to see the need for more GIS technology in Ops and also Prevention. He made it clear that I was never going to be sent to a class or do any work to help with these projects. The problem was that none of our chief officers had much of a clue when it came to technology (not a slam, just the way it is), and the technology guy was so clueless when it came to the fire service... People who want to move up and run the fire department need to understand areas other than just firefighting. You will need staff that can make financial decisions, political decisions, and technology decisions. Technology is very expensive. I've seen decisions made without enough knowledge of the field and then you end up with a product that doesn't do what you need and can't be changed enough to fit. If the citizens knew what their public employees had just wasted a bunch of money on they'd be screaming bloody murder....

    bottom line, education is valuable, but not all education happens in the classroom.

  14. #39
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Dickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BearTech View Post
    ..

    bottom line, education is valuable, but not all education happens in the classroom.
    Best statement I have heard all year!!!!
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

  15. #40
    Forum Member
    GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,064

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BearTech View Post

    bottom line, education is valuable, but not all education happens in the classroom.
    I wasnt sure where you were going with your post until I read this, and I agree 100 percent.

    I didnt mean to say that by bettering yourself you are then better than someone. That wasnt the point. What I mean is there is no way to say that by taking a fire science degree program and actualy applying yourself that you won't better yourself as a overall rounded firefighter. You arent better than anyone else when you graduate, but you are most certainly better than you were before hand.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  16. #41
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Thumbs up Exactly...............

    Quote Originally Posted by BearTech View Post


    I don't have a degree. Not everyone needs a college to "better themselves".

    Degrees and schooling do not make people better, only people can make themselves better.

    I think that sometimes too much importance is placed on having just ANY Bachelors degree. If it's something applicable to the fire service, great, if not...

    bottom line, education is valuable, but not all education happens in the classroom.

    In reading your whole post, it was easy for me to see why you are able to succeed without a degree. I've picked out a few "Bullets" for my own use in life. Congratulations on your achievements, and Thank You for a great post.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  17. #42
    B Shifter
    rjtoc2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Dallas/Fort Worth
    Posts
    209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BearTech View Post
    bottom line, education is valuable, but not all education happens in the classroom.
    I'd like to use this line in my signature. Who can give the credit to?

    This quote is one of the best I've read.
    rjtoc2

    career Fire Captain
    IAFF member
    Native Texan (by way of New Orleans)


    ***The above post (s) is/are MY opinion and do/does not necessarily reflect the views, positions, or opinions of neither my employer nor my IAFF Local.***

    Admit nothing, deny everything, demand proof, and make counter accusations.

    A lack of planning on your behalf does NOT create an emergency on my behalf.

    When all is said and done, alot more is said than done

  18. #43
    Forum Member
    BearTech's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Seattle WA USA
    Posts
    39

    Smile Flattered!

    Wow, thanks for the comments. I often wonder about how something I write sounds to others. I think I am at least decent at putting thoughts to paper, but by no means consider myself a very good writer. That post took probably half an hour to compete, with a few edits and changes while I was doing it. I'm glad that I got the point I was trying to make across. (see, just looking at that sentence something tells me that it's **** poor grammar. hmm)

    As far as the sentence about "not all education taking place in the classroom", I guess I can take credit for that one as I just made it up trying to sum up my post.

    One last point, some people learn REALLY well in a classroom environment. Some do much better on the job or just by teaching themselves. For me it's a mix, some topics I really need the classroom setting but others I seem to be able to teach myself.

  19. #44
    Forum Member
    trizahler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    46

    Post MN Legislation - On It's Way! FF Licensing Board

    The background presented was that the need for licensure of career firefighters has been discussed bythe MPFF for some time. Licensure for police officers has been around for some time; and, because such licensure does not exist for firefighters, there is a concern that possible funding streams are not available to the career firefighters. The legislation was basically modeled after the Police Officers Standards and Training Board (POST) and some of the rules may not be germane. There has been a lot removed from the bill at it was originally introduced. Research indicates that the Fire Service is becoming more of a science in that FF I, EMT, HazMat and other areas are needed for training.

    Nyle Zikmund has indicated that licensure is important to the state. POST designates training and has made strides in the compensation for police officers based on licenses. The legislation addresses the fire service industry in the colleges and the fire service has evolved extensively in various disciplines as evidenced in the 35W bridge collapse. President Thornberg sees the need for licensure in the state – no other state has such a licensing board; and, while there may be some that say it is generally good, the devil is in the details.


    Minnesota Board of Firefighter Training and Education Special Board Meeting Minutes of March 12, 2008 – St. Michael, MN

    Approved at Board Meeting of October 21, 2008

    Why use the MnBdFT&E? Mr. Rice indicated that the training board seemed a likely fit and alreadyseemed to be working with the colleges according to Nyle and expressed the belief that all Full Time Firefighters should be licensed. Minnesota ranks 44 th in the nation for expenditure on Fire Service and licensure would possibly benefit the career firefighters as well as the state.

    Concern about Rural Minnesota – paying of licensing for example. Mr. Rice stated that the legislation pertains to career firefighters only, but gives an opportunity for volunteer and paid-on-call firefighters to participate. There would be additional responsibilities for the board – ref Sub 3 (4) through (15). Additional responsibilities will add additional extensive costs to the Board – how will those costs be covered?

    Mr. Rice expressed his belief that there would be a fee for the licensing and that should cover additional costs or there may be a requirement to increase the surcharge or get additional moneys from the state. What is the budget for the POST Board?

    Mr. Rice did not have that answer [From 2006/2007 Biennial Budget - $3.943M and $3,943M respectively]. Is there a fiscal note for the legislation? That has not been requested as yet. Concern that legislation indicates that the MnBDFT&E supply materials that seems to be beyond the current scope? Mr Rice indicated that that area will be reviewed. What is the definition of “employee”? Mr. Rice indicated that the intent is that anyone can obtain a license, but originally thought that it would be a 40 hour a week paid person. The fire service is changing the distinction between career and volunteer/paid-on-call and that distinction is not a prominent today as it may have been. The training is the same for all firefighters, why is licensure necessary?

    Mr. Rice thought thatlicensure may carry possibilities of additional funding and that Nyle had indicated that he has a problem getting firefighters and this may help that. It appears that the legislation does not permit credit for those that are trained outside of the state of Minnesota. Mr. Beckering of MnSCU indicated that with proper transcripts – training can be carried across state lines.

    Mr. Rice indicated that this would be another area for review. [MnSCU had suggested language changes and Brian Rice and Don Beckering met after the meeting to discuss that.]Why not a separate Licensing Board? Mr. Rice indicated that there could be two separate boards, but there may be some competition between the two boards. The legislation defines the hours needed for basic training – new standards indicate an increase of hours far beyond that in the legislation – who will define that? Mr. Rice indicated that his is another area for clarification. There are issues on both sides pertaining to the aspect of using this board – politically the MPFF Licensing Bill has a hint of mandatory certification (a concern for some time of the fire service) and yet this board has started on a positive process that may be enhanced by the legislation – it will be necessary to determine the best avenue for the benefit of the fire service in Minnesota.

    Mr. Rice expressed appreciation for this insight. There was some discussion about the numbers of firefighters in the state – the specific numbers seemto be elusive. An estimate from various members of the Board on various associated numbers in the state was that there are 11 – 15 career departments, 20 – 30 Combination departments and about 1500 full time MPFF members.


    Minnesota Board of Firefighter Training and Education Special Board Meeting Minutes of March 12, 2008 – St. Michael, MN

    Approved at Board Meeting of October 21, 2008 Page 3 of 3 Why a new concept of licensing if not in other states? Mr. Rice reiterated the benefits already mentioned for the career firefighters and reviewed that “certification” may have the same connotation as licensure in some jurisdictions. It was mentioned that a joint legislative group representing several fire service organizations (not MPFF) passed a resolution opposing the legislation. Some discussion ensued about what version was the basis – subsequent information indicates that it was the revised version.

  20. #45
    Forum Member
    trizahler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    46

    Post FF Lic. Board = Law Enforcement POST

    Fire Fighter Licensing.
    (H.F. 3716 – Ozment/S.F. 3447 – Rest; H.F. 4231 – Ozment/S.F. 3860 - Rest.)

    This legislation will create a statewide firefighter licensing board similar to other professional boards. The board would license full-time, professional firefighters throughout the state and establish standards for minimum competency for career firefighters beginning July 1, 2012. Minimum training requirements and basic certifications similar to those for EMTs would be established for newly hired full time firefighters beginning July 1, 2012. A grandfather provision would grant licenses to all existing firefighters (including volunteers.) Apprenticeship programs inside existing departments could be created to deal with special populations and volunteer departments.

  21. #46
    Forum Member
    trizahler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    46

    Lightbulb Opinions?

    Does anyone have any opinions on this piece of legislation introduced by the MPFF?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register