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Thread: FF Licensing

  1. #41
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Jun 2002
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....

    Thumbs up Exactly...............

    Quote Originally Posted by BearTech View Post

    I don't have a degree. Not everyone needs a college to "better themselves".

    Degrees and schooling do not make people better, only people can make themselves better.

    I think that sometimes too much importance is placed on having just ANY Bachelors degree. If it's something applicable to the fire service, great, if not...

    bottom line, education is valuable, but not all education happens in the classroom.

    In reading your whole post, it was easy for me to see why you are able to succeed without a degree. I've picked out a few "Bullets" for my own use in life. Congratulations on your achievements, and Thank You for a great post.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.


  2. #42
    B Shifter rjtoc2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Dallas/Fort Worth


    Quote Originally Posted by BearTech View Post
    bottom line, education is valuable, but not all education happens in the classroom.
    I'd like to use this line in my signature. Who can give the credit to?

    This quote is one of the best I've read.

    career Fire Captain
    IAFF member
    Native Texan (by way of New Orleans)

    ***The above post (s) is/are MY opinion and do/does not necessarily reflect the views, positions, or opinions of neither my employer nor my IAFF Local.***

    Admit nothing, deny everything, demand proof, and make counter accusations.

    A lack of planning on your behalf does NOT create an emergency on my behalf.

    When all is said and done, alot more is said than done

  3. #43
    Forum Member BearTech's Avatar
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    May 2008
    Seattle WA USA

    Smile Flattered!

    Wow, thanks for the comments. I often wonder about how something I write sounds to others. I think I am at least decent at putting thoughts to paper, but by no means consider myself a very good writer. That post took probably half an hour to compete, with a few edits and changes while I was doing it. I'm glad that I got the point I was trying to make across. (see, just looking at that sentence something tells me that it's **** poor grammar. hmm)

    As far as the sentence about "not all education taking place in the classroom", I guess I can take credit for that one as I just made it up trying to sum up my post.

    One last point, some people learn REALLY well in a classroom environment. Some do much better on the job or just by teaching themselves. For me it's a mix, some topics I really need the classroom setting but others I seem to be able to teach myself.

  4. #44
    Forum Member trizahler's Avatar
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    Nov 2006

    Post MN Legislation - On It's Way! FF Licensing Board

    The background presented was that the need for licensure of career firefighters has been discussed bythe MPFF for some time. Licensure for police officers has been around for some time; and, because such licensure does not exist for firefighters, there is a concern that possible funding streams are not available to the career firefighters. The legislation was basically modeled after the Police Officers Standards and Training Board (POST) and some of the rules may not be germane. There has been a lot removed from the bill at it was originally introduced. Research indicates that the Fire Service is becoming more of a science in that FF I, EMT, HazMat and other areas are needed for training.

    Nyle Zikmund has indicated that licensure is important to the state. POST designates training and has made strides in the compensation for police officers based on licenses. The legislation addresses the fire service industry in the colleges and the fire service has evolved extensively in various disciplines as evidenced in the 35W bridge collapse. President Thornberg sees the need for licensure in the state – no other state has such a licensing board; and, while there may be some that say it is generally good, the devil is in the details.

    Minnesota Board of Firefighter Training and Education Special Board Meeting Minutes of March 12, 2008 – St. Michael, MN

    Approved at Board Meeting of October 21, 2008

    Why use the MnBdFT&E? Mr. Rice indicated that the training board seemed a likely fit and alreadyseemed to be working with the colleges according to Nyle and expressed the belief that all Full Time Firefighters should be licensed. Minnesota ranks 44 th in the nation for expenditure on Fire Service and licensure would possibly benefit the career firefighters as well as the state.

    Concern about Rural Minnesota – paying of licensing for example. Mr. Rice stated that the legislation pertains to career firefighters only, but gives an opportunity for volunteer and paid-on-call firefighters to participate. There would be additional responsibilities for the board – ref Sub 3 (4) through (15). Additional responsibilities will add additional extensive costs to the Board – how will those costs be covered?

    Mr. Rice expressed his belief that there would be a fee for the licensing and that should cover additional costs or there may be a requirement to increase the surcharge or get additional moneys from the state. What is the budget for the POST Board?

    Mr. Rice did not have that answer [From 2006/2007 Biennial Budget - $3.943M and $3,943M respectively]. Is there a fiscal note for the legislation? That has not been requested as yet. Concern that legislation indicates that the MnBDFT&E supply materials that seems to be beyond the current scope? Mr Rice indicated that that area will be reviewed. What is the definition of “employee”? Mr. Rice indicated that the intent is that anyone can obtain a license, but originally thought that it would be a 40 hour a week paid person. The fire service is changing the distinction between career and volunteer/paid-on-call and that distinction is not a prominent today as it may have been. The training is the same for all firefighters, why is licensure necessary?

    Mr. Rice thought thatlicensure may carry possibilities of additional funding and that Nyle had indicated that he has a problem getting firefighters and this may help that. It appears that the legislation does not permit credit for those that are trained outside of the state of Minnesota. Mr. Beckering of MnSCU indicated that with proper transcripts – training can be carried across state lines.

    Mr. Rice indicated that this would be another area for review. [MnSCU had suggested language changes and Brian Rice and Don Beckering met after the meeting to discuss that.]Why not a separate Licensing Board? Mr. Rice indicated that there could be two separate boards, but there may be some competition between the two boards. The legislation defines the hours needed for basic training – new standards indicate an increase of hours far beyond that in the legislation – who will define that? Mr. Rice indicated that his is another area for clarification. There are issues on both sides pertaining to the aspect of using this board – politically the MPFF Licensing Bill has a hint of mandatory certification (a concern for some time of the fire service) and yet this board has started on a positive process that may be enhanced by the legislation – it will be necessary to determine the best avenue for the benefit of the fire service in Minnesota.

    Mr. Rice expressed appreciation for this insight. There was some discussion about the numbers of firefighters in the state – the specific numbers seemto be elusive. An estimate from various members of the Board on various associated numbers in the state was that there are 11 – 15 career departments, 20 – 30 Combination departments and about 1500 full time MPFF members.

    Minnesota Board of Firefighter Training and Education Special Board Meeting Minutes of March 12, 2008 – St. Michael, MN

    Approved at Board Meeting of October 21, 2008 Page 3 of 3 Why a new concept of licensing if not in other states? Mr. Rice reiterated the benefits already mentioned for the career firefighters and reviewed that “certification” may have the same connotation as licensure in some jurisdictions. It was mentioned that a joint legislative group representing several fire service organizations (not MPFF) passed a resolution opposing the legislation. Some discussion ensued about what version was the basis – subsequent information indicates that it was the revised version.

  5. #45
    Forum Member trizahler's Avatar
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    Nov 2006

    Post FF Lic. Board = Law Enforcement POST

    Fire Fighter Licensing.
    (H.F. 3716 – Ozment/S.F. 3447 – Rest; H.F. 4231 – Ozment/S.F. 3860 - Rest.)

    This legislation will create a statewide firefighter licensing board similar to other professional boards. The board would license full-time, professional firefighters throughout the state and establish standards for minimum competency for career firefighters beginning July 1, 2012. Minimum training requirements and basic certifications similar to those for EMTs would be established for newly hired full time firefighters beginning July 1, 2012. A grandfather provision would grant licenses to all existing firefighters (including volunteers.) Apprenticeship programs inside existing departments could be created to deal with special populations and volunteer departments.

  6. #46
    Forum Member trizahler's Avatar
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    Nov 2006

    Lightbulb Opinions?

    Does anyone have any opinions on this piece of legislation introduced by the MPFF?

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