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    Unhappy FDNY Ladder CRASH:

    NEW YORK (WABC) -- A fire truck and MTA bus collided in the Brownsville section of Brooklyn injuring six firefighters and 19 people on the bus.

    Six firefighters from Ladder 103 were rushed to the hospital, two with serious but non-life threatening injuries. At least one was temporarily pinned in the ladder truck.

    The LADDER truck was on its way to a CAR fire when the accident occurred.
    http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/...h-Bus/46$61982

    I don't think I understand anything that I know about this. A BIG LADDER truck...with SIX firefighters for a lousy CAR fire? It must have been reported as a real BIG, TALL car.

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    Your right. You don't understand.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1OLDTIMER View Post
    http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/...h-Bus/46$61982

    I don't think I understand anything that I know about this. A BIG LADDER truck...with SIX firefighters for a lousy CAR fire? It must have been reported as a real BIG, TALL car.
    This is why Sh*t for brains:

    5-5-5-5
    TONY SHANDS FIREMAN, ENG. 297
    Oct 20, 1984 Box # 99-4310, PARSONS BLVD. & 20TH AVE.
    HIT BY CAR


    This man's untimely death lead to a change in our procedures.

    Anything else you care to spout some ignorant BS about?

    FTM-PTB

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    Oldtimer, I strongly reccomend that you retract your statement, or better yet, delete your post all together, as it is quite obvious that you have absolutely no clue about what the hell you are talking about (as I previously suspected.)

    One other thing- the guys are all going to be fine if you even care. Asswipe.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Oldtimer, I strongly reccomend that you retract your statement, or better yet, delete your post all together, as it is quite obvious that you have absolutely no clue about what the hell you are talking about (as I previously suspected.)

    One other thing- the guys are all going to be fine if you even care. asswipe.
    1. And what is it that I don't know "what the hell I am talking about?" Could you be a little more specific...opposed to making a broad statement...without (really) saying ANYTHING...Re: the topic?

    2. I strongly recommend (not YOUR reccomend) that YOU loose the "name calling." But then, since this is YOUR usual MO...that would be asking too much I know.

    3. I don't think FDNY Ladder 103 has a pump, tank or hose...but I could be incorrect on this.

    4. Regardless, why does it take 6 men, a huge 100ft+ ladder (racing through the congested streets of NY)...for a lousy CAR [not a big commercial truck] fire? Maybe you (THINK) they NEED; 2 people for fire control; 2 for a RIT Team; 2 for traffic control?

    3. Only a very few years ago, CARS fires were handled with 2 men and a 400/200 Mini-Pump w/a BOOSTER line, but I realize FDNY probably doesn't have "minis," so how about an engine Co.?

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    Engine for fire attack, Ladder for scene safety.
    www.firehall.com - check it out

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1OLDTIMER View Post
    1. And what is it that I don't know "what the hell I am talking about?" Could you be a little more specific...opposed to making a broad statement...without (really) saying ANYTHING...Re: the topic? You have zero knowledge of FDNY's standard operating procedures regarding incident/apparatus assignment.

    2. I strongly recommend (not YOUR reccomend) that YOU loose the "name calling." But then, since this is YOUR usual MO...that would be asking too much I know. I'm sorry nancy, did I hurt your feelings? Just dont hit me with your purse. May I remind you however, that you are the one who posted the original smart-*** post which was dripping with sarcasm.

    3. I don't think FDNY Ladder 103 has a pump, tank or hose...but I could be incorrect on this. No, it does not. But it was not on the assignment for purposes of hose or water.

    4. Regardless, why does it take 6 men, a huge 100ft+ ladder (racing through the congested streets of NY)...for a lousy CAR [not a big commercial truck] fire? Maybe you (THINK) they NEED; 2 people for fire control; 2 for a RIT Team; 2 for traffic control? Obviously you did not read FFFred's post very well. Might I suggest you read it again? Or didn't they teach "reading for comprehension" in the one-room schoolhouse?

    3. Only a very few years ago, CARS fires were handled with 2 men and a 400/200 Mini-Pump w/a BOOSTER line, but I realize FDNY probably doesn't have "minis," so how about an engine Co.?
    I know this may be a foreign concept to you, but unlike the one-horse burg you live in, NEW YORK CITY has many, many wide streets, avenues and highways....all of which range from one to 6 or more lanes of travel in one direction. And, unlike your one horse burg, the entire world does not come to a screaming halt if there is an accident or car fire on said streets; the locals seem to make a game of seeing how close they can come to the cops and firemen while maintaining 55mph.......Do I need to draw you a diagram?

    Now, in case if you were wondering what the 5-5-5-5 was in FFFred's post, that is New York City's bell code (you are old, you should know what I mean by that) for line of duty death.

    Now, if thy thick head still prevents you from understanding, on October 20, 1984, Fireman Tony Shands of Engine Company 297, was struck and killed while operating at box Box # 99-4310, (Parsons Blvd. & 20th Ave.) There was no truck company there to act as a barrier for E297. As a result, FDNY changed their SOP's to add a Truck to all auto fires.

    Had your original post been worded differently, such as "I was curious as to why FDNY sent a Truck to a car fire?" I would have treated you differently. But, like this time, the last time you posted something about someone else's accident, you came off as an arrogant, all-knowing ***. Therefore, you were treated as such, ***.

    Oh, and one more time, just for clarification- the guys involved all suffered non life-threatening injuries, and are doing well. Just in case if you were wondering.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    I don't think FDNY Ladder 103 has a pump, tank or hose...but I could be incorrect on this. No, it does not. But it was not on the assignment for purposes of hose or water.
    Exactly MY point there "MR. EXPERT...KNOW IT ALL!" A LADDER truck and MTA bus collided in the Brownsville section of Brooklyn injuring six firefighters and 19 people on the bus.

    Six F/F's and nineteen civilians were injured...by a rig making a run to a CAR fire...with NO WATER, PUMP or even a lousy BOOSTER line. What were they going to do when they arrived...IF they had not smashed into the bus? Never mind...as you are intent on putting me down...and if it makes you feel better, you have succeeded.

    However, I did learn a couple of things that have gotten me through the past 69 years...in my "one-horse, one room school house...rinky-dink burg."

    a. Never get into a p-ssing contest with a skunk...as you have no way of winning.

    b. An "expert" (which you obviously are) can be anyone in a dark suit...over 100 miles from his home.

    The End............................

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    Oldtimer: FWD may not always excel at using tact, but he did answer your question: ladder companies respond for blocking on auto fires in FDNY.
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    Oldtimer- What exactly is inside that thick head of yours? Concrete? Solid marble? Sand? Sawdust? Because it sure as hell isn't brain matter.

    This is why any reported auto fire that FDNY is dispatched to gets an engine and a truck:

    Courtesy of WABC-TV
    Four New Jersey State Police troopers escaped serious injury when a tractor-trailer plowed into their accident scene.

    HOPE, N.J. -- Four New Jersey State Police troopers escaped serious injury when a tractor-trailer plowed into their accident scene on icy Interstate 80 in Hope.

    Newscopter-7 was live over the scene.

    Officials say the troopers were investigating a prior spin out in the eastbound lanes, near milemarker 12.1, when a tractor-trailer lost control just before 5:30 a.m.

    The tractor-trailer skidded into another vehicle that spun out on the icy lanes.

    The rig then smashed into a fire truck and two state police cruisers that had responded to the previous crash.

    Four state police troopers escaped serious injury, officials believe, because the fire truck was able to block their patrol cars from taking a direct hit from the tractor trailer.

    Eyewitness News is told the troopers were taken to the hospital to be checked out. Their police cruisers were totaled.

    A motorist from the original spin out was also hospitalized with unknown injuries.

    State Police said only the left lane eastbound was open as they investigated the crash. Authorities also had to clean up 300 gallons of diesel fuel that spilled onto the roadway.
    Republished with permission of WABC-TV

    I like that line about the skunk.....I have a sign hanging over my desk that you may enjoy: "Arguing with an inspector is like wrestling in the mud with a pig. Sooner or later you realize the pig enjoys it."

    Oh, and yes, once again, since you have failed to ask (in your apparent attempt to throw them "under the bus", pardon the pun..) the injured members involved in the accident will be ok.
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 12-20-2008 at 10:56 PM.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Dumbass, your question has been answered at least 5 times now. But I'll answer it again since you're too stupid to comprehend it.

    THE
    LADDER
    TRUCK
    RESPONDS
    TO
    BLOCK
    THE
    ROAD
    TO
    PROTECT
    THE
    ENGINE
    CREW


    Does that help?
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    So what you are saying is, is that the ladder company responds to block the road to protect the engine crew?
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    I have said it before. Its better to be second due than the first defendant. A safe response is everyone's responsibility. Luckily no one was seriously injured.

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    I believe their ladders also carry hydraulic tools, in case any doors or such need forcing on the vehicles...
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    "I believe their ladders also carry hydraulic tools, in case any doors or such need forcing on the vehicles..."

    We send a ladder with an engine for car fires. one-to use the rig with all of those flashing lights for the safety of the engine crew. two-for the reason above, we'll use the hyd tools to open the hood from the side so an engine guy wont be tempted to kneel in front of the grille searching for the hood release or use a haligan to open the hood. three-help the engine crew get the job done quicker, picked up quicker, and get the hell off the interstate or busy city street as quick as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    So what you are saying is, is that the ladder company responds to block the road to protect the engine crew?
    More or less
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    I believe their ladders also carry hydraulic tools, in case any doors or such need forcing on the vehicles...
    You are correct bones, but only certain Truck Companies carry tools ("SOC Truck Companies.) I don't know if 103 is one of these.

    And this morning, on "The Secret List":
    This morning, in Anne Arundel County (Maryland) an engine company was blocking a crash scene in I-295 near I-195. The road conditions were really bad with black ice being a problem as well. Several civilian vehicles, losing control, struck fire apparatus as well as a medic unit. A civilian in a car was tragically killed as a result of that medic unit "struck" crash. No fire or EMS personnel were injured. One of their other engines was also struck at a separate scene but no one was hurt. More reminders of how "we" need to expect this to happen-and manage our personnel at a scene. Block and protect.


    Wow...What the hell was an engine company doing at an accident scene where there was no fire involved? What possibly could they have done?
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    You are correct bones, but only certain Truck Companies carry tools ("SOC Truck Companies.) I don't know if 103 is one of these.

    And this morning, on "The Secret List":
    This morning, in Anne Arundel County (Maryland) an engine company was blocking a crash scene in I-295 near I-195. The road conditions were really bad with black ice being a problem as well. Several civilian vehicles, losing control, struck fire apparatus as well as a medic unit. A civilian in a car was tragically killed as a result of that medic unit "struck" crash. No fire or EMS personnel were injured. One of their other engines was also struck at a separate scene but no one was hurt. More reminders of how "we" need to expect this to happen-and manage our personnel at a scene. Block and protect.


    Wow...What the hell was an engine company doing at an accident scene where there was no fire involved? What possibly could they have done?
    All of our trucks carry hurst tools. .....why are you guys even responding to this idiot though?
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1OLDTIMER View Post
    I don't think I understand anything that I know about this. A BIG LADDER truck...with SIX firefighters for a lousy CAR fire? It must have been reported as a real BIG, TALL car.

    Maybe you should educate yourself a bit before you start making accusations and dictating policy for a department, of which you are not a member.
    I hate to tell you the bad news, but we send a truck company to every car fire in the city here, as well. Our trucks have no water or hose, either.
    Here, all of our trucks carry hydraulic tools and power saws. Here, our trucks force open the hood and trunk, if need be.
    We also supply additional personnel, and as has already been stated, we add a level of protection to the engine while they extinguish the fire by blocking the road.

    So, take your attitude, your rolling eyes, and go hump some other leg. Your sarcasm is not welcomed, nor will it be tolerated.
    If you didn't understand a policy, you could have asked a question as opposed to being a jag. You chose jag, so live with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    All of our trucks carry hurst tools. .....why are you guys even responding to this idiot though?

    That's what happens when your team doesn't make the playoffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1OLDTIMER View Post
    1. And what is it that I don't know "what the hell I am talking about?" Could you be a little more specific...opposed to making a broad statement...without (really) saying ANYTHING...Re: the topic?

    2. I strongly recommend (not YOUR reccomend) that YOU loose the "name calling." But then, since this is YOUR usual MO...that would be asking too much I know.

    3. I don't think FDNY Ladder 103 has a pump, tank or hose...but I could be incorrect on this.

    4. Regardless, why does it take 6 men, a huge 100ft+ ladder (racing through the congested streets of NY)...for a lousy CAR [not a big commercial truck] fire? Maybe you (THINK) they NEED; 2 people for fire control; 2 for a RIT Team; 2 for traffic control?

    3. Only a very few years ago, CARS fires were handled with 2 men and a 400/200 Mini-Pump w/a BOOSTER line, but I realize FDNY probably doesn't have "minis," so how about an engine Co.?
    If you are going to criticize someone for their misspellings, atleast spell "lose" correctly. As for the rest of your post, couldnt care less if you dont understand why we do things the way we do. Seems to me the only thing you would understand is the flavor of the window on your school bus.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    FWDbuff:

    From the original story:

    Six firefighters from Ladder 103 were rushed to the hospital, two with serious but non-life threatening injuries.
    I read the original story (which obviously you didn't) Why do you insist upon repeating this statement ?
    1.
    Oh, and yes, once again, since you have failed to ask (in your apparent attempt to throw them "under the bus", pardon the pun..) the injured members involved in the accident will be ok.
    2.
    Oh, and one more time, just for clarification- the guys involved all suffered non life-threatening injuries, and are doing well. Just in case if you were wondering.
    Point out WHERE in ANY of my statements that I attempted to "throw them" under the bus." I assume you were Re: the 6 firefighters?

    However in your attempt elevate yourself and to make me out some kinda of fool...I noticed that not once did you mention the 19 innocent CITIZENS on the damn bus...which YOU have (pardon the pun) "thrown under the bus." Oh I see...only 19 no-count citizens (taxpayers) that the emergency services are sworn to protect. Who cares about BUS riding peons anyway...except that maybe, just maybe one of those BUS riders might have been a firefighter or cop on his way to work! I bet that would change your tune!

    Oldtimer- What exactly is inside that thick head of yours? Concrete? Solid marble? Sand? Sawdust? Because it sure as hell isn't brain matter.
    Quite a bit of good, old fashioned (obviously) UN-common sense, which there seems to be massive lack today. As I stated previously;
    Only a very few years ago, CARS fires were handled with 2 men and a 400/200 Mini-Pump w/a BOOSTER line, but I realize FDNY probably doesn't have "minis," so how about an engine Co.?
    Then you post some accident on the Interstate...which is totally unrelated, requiring a different assignment/response. How wold you handle a CAR...on a 8ft. clearance parking deck about 4 stories up? Don't think a big ladder or average Eng. ANYWHERE would make it there, but guess what...a "min" will truck right on up there as far as the floors go.

    nmfire--> First...learn to spell. It's Dumb *** not Dumbass...Dumb ***. Your question has been answered at least 5 times now. But I'll answer it again since you're too stupid to comprehend it.
    Yes...if it's on a 6-lane, but shut the entire highway down for a CAR fire...I don't think so on a average city street. Has ANYONE EVER SAVED a CAR from burning anyway? Usually a worthless pile of ashes...hauled away in a garbage truck after it's extinguished.

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    So you disagree with FDNY sending the ladder for blocking on all vehicle fires, whether they're on the highway in the middle of Times Square...fine. It works for them, why are you worked up about it?

    You hate 90% of the things the modern fire service does. We get it. Things have changed some since the 70's, sorry.

    When's the last time you COMPLIMENTED anything you see the folks that are still on the front lines doing?
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    Its obvious he doesn't actually care about the original issue, why a ladder was responding. He is more interested in criticizing FDNY and anyone here who defends their method.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I noticed that not once did you mention the 19 innocent CITIZENS on the damn bus...which YOU have (pardon the pun) "thrown under the bus." Oh I see...only 19 no-count citizens (taxpayers) that the emergency services are sworn to protect. Who cares about BUS riding peons anyway...except that maybe, just maybe one of those BUS riders might have been a firefighter or cop on his way to work! I bet that would change your tune!
    Obviously you've never been to, on or near Mother Gaston Blvd, ENY or even Brooklyn for that matter. I'll bet dollars to donuts that less than 5% of those bus riders were actual "taxpayers"...most of them get a check on the 1st and the 15th if you know what I mean, or at the very least get a tax refund that gives them a negative tax burden. And based on my expereince in riding the bus on some details...many are fare beaters.

    And according to a friend who was on a Company that responded to assist L103 and a friends nephew who is a cop in that precinct...there were a few who jumped on the bus...after the accident or claimed to have been hit by debris while standing in the street.(this is far from an unusual occurance and I'll spell it out for use since you appear to be a rube...They were looking for a pay day from the city!)

    And to return to the point...we don't send the ladder company to a car fire to put the fire out...just the same we don't send them to a structural fire to extinguish it either...but they are still on the ticket.

    FTM-PTB

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