Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
Closed Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 73
  1. #41
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,485

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
    Sorry about the duplicates my computer has a mind of its own. No Tim I dont feel outnumbered I am just tired of hearing the same old stuff. I applaud each and every member who works on a truck committee. a lot of hours away from family, salesman trying to tell what to buy. Its a lot of work and until you see the end result its can be a long bumpy road. We all have our preferences and thats fine just enough on the bashing we all know what manufactures you like or dont like. Lets just chill a bit and especilly the guys or gals who have had experience on speccing a truck lets do what we can to help out some of our brothers and sis ters to make sure they dont make some of the same mistakes we made
    Hey scott Is it you or your computer thats stuttering??? Too much of TC's home cooking??? Have you taken delivery of your new puck yet??

    Not once did I ever say the pierce was the only company guilty of attempting to fix bids, In the court case and investigation in NJ it happened to be a case of collusion between the p rep & fire depts to only allow Pierce to be able to successfully bid the contracts. Thats why the state attny general filed charges , because they broke the law. Those are the facts in the court case plain & simple.
    Quite obviously spartan motors got caught breaking the law doing and have been fined heavily for their actions. Just as guilty as pierce was when they got caught. The lesson to be learned from both cases is to produce an open performance based spec for apparatus that will allow any manufacturer to be able to bid and be given an opportunity to have their bid judged against the others fairly. Don't write a spec based on the hood ornament.


  2. #42
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Spanky hasn't been eating my home cookin,if he had he'd be nappin,not stuttering.Guess you'all haven't met my salesman,no sales push just a suggestion or two.A rather amazing gent who spent more time listening than talking.Initial proposal came back almost dead on,became dead on with the addition of a couple items at prebuild.Clock's ticking' I'm looking forward to mid March.T.C.

  3. #43
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Easton,Pa
    Posts
    368

    Default

    islandfire-No charges have been filed in NJ. No laws were broken in NJ. And if you read the report correctly you would realize early on that the same method was used by ALL manufacturers who want to sell in NJ. Its not just Pierce.

    Now can the system be impoved? Yes without a doubt. Hopefully the state will move more towards the COSTARS program or HGAC.

  4. #44
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Casco, Maine
    Posts
    121

    Default

    She is at Minuiteman as we speak and they are doing some add on stuff for us as well as the lettering. We wanted to get the holidays out of the way before we took delivery as a lot of my guys were going to be away. (Chief included) TC is right if I had indulged in some of that B town cuisine i would be snoozing

  5. #45
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,159

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Engine153 View Post
    Even the objective posters like BoxAlarm187 let this one get away.
    Hey, I try to be on top of my game!
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  6. #46
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Posts
    396

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sven73 View Post
    No charges have been filed in NJ. No laws were broken in NJ. And if you read the report correctly you would realize early on that the same method was used by ALL manufacturers who want to sell in NJ.
    The report cites instances where fire truck sales personnel received commission checks for rigs purchased by their own departments, which is a huge conflict of interest and raises ethical issues. Especially since there was only one bidder. It also stated that a department changed brands after one of its members started selling for a different manufacturer. I guess that was just coincidence.
    Last edited by firepiper1; 12-31-2008 at 05:12 PM.
    I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

  7. #47
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Casco, Maine
    Posts
    121

    Default

    And I bet that that happens each and every day by more than one ff/salesman representing many other dealers, manufacturers and in more than NJ

  8. #48
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Posts
    396

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
    And I bet that that happens each and every day by more than one ff/salesman representing many other dealers, manufacturers and in more than NJ
    So, does that make it right?

    A department near me was looking for a quint last year. One of its members sells apparatus. The chief told him that in order to avoid conflict of interest, his company would not be allowed to bid. I know that private fire companies may operate differently, but that's the way it should be in any municipal fire department.
    Last edited by firepiper1; 12-31-2008 at 05:41 PM.
    I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

  9. #49
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Casco, Maine
    Posts
    121

    Default

    No it does not however I am tired of the signalling out of one manufacturer. thats why I said it happens every where not just in NJ and not just by Pierce but there is no bashing there I have seen it happen more than once and it was not pierce or a one of there sales team
    Last edited by ScottAvery; 12-31-2008 at 05:44 PM.

  10. #50
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,485

    Default

    Hey scott : you should switch from the koolaid to some nice Shipyard ale! After all it is new years eve. :-}
    Peace

    I wish I had known your puck was down in Walpole , we had to take a trip down there last week for something else.
    Last edited by islandfire03; 12-31-2008 at 06:36 PM.

  11. #51
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,664

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    Or, in other words, if they didn't use your spec to heck with them. Cause, let's face it, well over 90 percent of the specs that are published are a manufacturer's spec rather than a generic or performance spec.

    Plenty of other brands get sold using Pierce specs (I use Pierce because the majority of published specs I have seen in the last thirty years have been Pierce.) It is up to the salesperson to determine if he/she has a legitimate chance of success. IMHO, those departments that only receive a single bid from the company whose specs they use have given some kind of signal to potential bidders that they have already decided what to buy.
    Okay first you chastise me for what I said then your last sentence that I highlighted re-enforces EXACTLY what I meant.

    Frankly, if an FD calls in a rep from any company, sits down and develops a spec with that rep, sends that spec out to other company's reps who look it over and decide that the spec is written as a brand x spec, why would the other companys invest time and money to bid? It is obvious what that FD wants or they wouldn't have invested the time with ONLY that ONE rep.

    When my volly FD was looking for a new rescue engine we sat down and wrote our needs and wants list, we then sat down with reps from 6 different companies. We shared our initial list with them and felt out who could or couldn't do what we wanted. After culling the herd so to say, we finished up our rough spec, sent it out to the companies remaining and waited to see what they had to say. We received 2 specs and prices and worked with those 2 companies until we ended up with a finished spec and price. Not one element in our spec precluded anyone that could build a stainless steel body from bidding on our rescue engine. We listed no manufacturer specific parts or processes and were willing, if it didn't compromise what we wanted, to look at manufacturers exceptions to our spec.

    Once again I revert to my previous post, there are only those 3 reasons for using a manufacturer's spec for your FD spec.

  12. #52
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Casco, Maine
    Posts
    121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Hey scott : you should switch from the koolaid to some nice Shipyard ale! After all it is new years eve. :-}
    Peace

    I wish I had known your puck was down in Walpole , we had to take a trip down there last week for something else.
    I took you up on your advise and went to texas road house and had me some shipyahds

  13. #53
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    450

    Default

    Spartan is a top notch company IMO. Their customer service is second to none. The annual mechanics training conference is amazing and a hell of a deal too. I don't believe any other manufacturer comes anywhere close in providing training like Spartan does, definitely not on the same scale.

    I'm not saying that what happened with Force Protection is right, but isn't Spartan just providing the "body builder" with a chassis? I would think that builders receive "something" for using brand X warning lights or brand Y valves as standard. Maybe not on the same scale but isn't it similar? How is it any different to send your big customers on vacations and such when in the private sector? My old employer sent customers on a Vegas weekend every year.

    Am I missing something?

    HAPPY NEW YEAR

  14. #54
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,775

    Default

    It looks to me as if the allegation is specifically paying an individual in the decision-making process to choose Spartan. When it's tied to federal government contracts it should be as illegal as hell. Can you imagine the taxpayers in your community if they found the Fire Chief was given a trip to Cancun so he'd buy from a certain builder? Spartan was wrong, they were caught, they'll pay the penalty and move on. I think it's pretty low, but I'm sure this is more the norm with high dollar value contracts than we can even imagine.

  15. #55
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Ocala, Florida
    Posts
    222

    Default Crs !

    [QUOTE=islandfire03;1020211]"My bad!! Thats what happens when your brain gets past the half century mark. Got the CRS disease."

    Islandfire;
    Not a problem ! I know the feeling.. getting very near the BIG 60 myself !!
    Take Care & be SAFE
    Bert

  16. #56
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Spanky,you little s**t,you went to the roadhouse and dinnah tell me?They got roadsigns with your name on 'em! T.C.

  17. #57
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Casco, Maine
    Posts
    121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Spanky,you little s**t,you went to the roadhouse and dinnah tell me?They got roadsigns with your name on 'em! T.C.
    I wanted to invite you but the wife said you would probabally not behave. A guys night out at the roadhouse would not be a bad idea. You think we can get cartman for a little extra enterainment??

  18. #58
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Is a frogs tail watertight? Sounds like a good idea and I got call ahead seating on speeddial,hehe T.C.

  19. #59
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,556

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Spanky,you little s**t,you went to the roadhouse and dinnah tell me?They got roadsigns with your name on 'em! T.C.
    One way and dead end!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  20. #60
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Oh, I see you know Spanky,hehe T.C.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Spartan vs. Spartan Comp
    By RFDACM02 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 01-30-2008, 03:25 AM
  2. @007 EPA motors
    By doodonk in forum The Engineer
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 12-05-2007, 07:23 AM
  3. General Motors SIR Systems
    By dragonfyre in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-27-2002, 04:37 PM
  4. HELP with rafts & motors
    By SShaw in forum Underwater Rescue and Recovery
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-21-2001, 09:58 PM
  5. Are there any Fed's out there?
    By NCFiremedic in forum Federal & Military Firehouse Forum
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 02-27-2001, 04:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts