Thread: Bad Lt

  1. #1

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    Default Bad Lt

    Recently my department had people retire and die and take other promotions. This allowed for a firefighter to be promoted, who otherwise would not have had the chance to be promoted.
    Because of the size of our department, it is unlikely that "freezing him out" would be successful since there is nowhere for him to transfer to. The company (him excluded) has discussed freezing him out. For example, refraining from conversation, not allowing him to be in the food club(and when he brings his lunch throwing it in the freezer), treating our barn boss as the officer, start training every time he sits down, leaving the kitchen when he enters, locking him out when he shows up off duty out of uniform(we don't recognize you!)... etc.
    It is not simply that he smells, and chews with his mouth open. He shown his lack of knowledge and vision on fire scenes, however it has been to the extent where he could be canned for his actions. He has aslo demonstrated lack of concern for his firemen, but again it hasn't yet been grounds for termination, but his firemen his behavior and his actions spoke loud and clear to the crew on where they stood with his priorities.

    What can a minimally staffed union fire dept's firemen do to get this knob out?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerKaiser View Post
    Recently my department had people retire and die and take other promotions. This allowed for a firefighter to be promoted, who otherwise would not have had the chance to be promoted.
    Because of the size of our department, it is unlikely that "freezing him out" would be successful since there is nowhere for him to transfer to. The company (him excluded) has discussed freezing him out. For example, refraining from conversation, not allowing him to be in the food club(and when he brings his lunch throwing it in the freezer), treating our barn boss as the officer, start training every time he sits down, leaving the kitchen when he enters, locking him out when he shows up off duty out of uniform(we don't recognize you!)... etc.
    It is not simply that he smells, and chews with his mouth open. He shown his lack of knowledge and vision on fire scenes, however it has been to the extent where he could be canned for his actions. He has aslo demonstrated lack of concern for his firemen, but again it hasn't yet been grounds for termination, but his firemen his behavior and his actions spoke loud and clear to the crew on where they stood with his priorities.

    What can a minimally staffed union fire dept's firemen do to get this knob out?
    Is he a union brother?

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    First off, it sucks to be you guys. I know, I've been in that same boat. We had a FF skip a rank because they did some subtle changing in the contract during negotiations that enabled this person to skip ranks, next contract the same person tried to change the contract language back so no one else could do what they did. This person is considered the worst fire officer that we have by the majority of the dept.

    The company (him excluded) has discussed freezing him out. For example, refraining from conversation, not allowing him to be in the food club(and when he brings his lunch throwing it in the freezer), treating our barn boss as the officer, start training every time he sits down, leaving the kitchen when he enters, locking him out when he shows up off duty out of uniform(we don't recognize you!)... etc.
    You need to be very careful with that. What you are suggesting is to "single him out" which is considered harassment and is probably against your dept/municipalities SOGs. At my dept that is a fire able offense, our city has a zero tolerance policy on it and considers it no different than racism and sexual harassment. The best thing you can do is sit him down as a group and tell him your feelings and try to come up with a solution. If he is dangerous on calls than tell him and maybe do some training with him. If you still have problems then document them so you can create a paper trail.

    You may also want to post this in the firefighters forum, you may get a lot more responses.
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoWalProFire View Post
    Is he a union brother?
    BROTHER??? a brother should know how to be a brother, right?

    Unfortunately this is tough. I did have a time where my senior man was just a total knob and in it for himself. He even did his own business work while on duty (the upper echelon failed to allow his line officers to set any discipline). It was a big mess. According to another post he was a "blister" (only showed up after the work was done). We had enough of carry the guy, feeding him, cleaning for him, and recieved no thanks. We (the brothers) came together to discuss this issue many times. That day, I said I will talk to him. I knew he could wail on me and probably beat me to a pulp.

    Never the less, he failed to heed our advise. So the shift went to him and said enough... no food with us, assigned a cleaning room, and he rotated more onto the ambulance. In a month he got "hurt" (yeah right!) at a training fire and had to retire.

    My advise... talk to him in the group (b/c he is the superior). Let him know that the old water is under the bridge if he lets it. That is contingent upon him.

  5. #5
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    Grow the f*ck up. You dont need to be union or a "brother" to understand that. Seems that the actions that you all are considering are real brother like. Speaks volumes for what the union guys consider brotherhood.
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerKaiser View Post
    Recently my department had people retire and die and take other promotions. This allowed for a firefighter to be promoted, who otherwise would not have had the chance to be promoted.
    Because of the size of our department, it is unlikely that "freezing him out" would be successful since there is nowhere for him to transfer to. The company (him excluded) has discussed freezing him out. For example, refraining from conversation, not allowing him to be in the food club(and when he brings his lunch throwing it in the freezer), treating our barn boss as the officer, start training every time he sits down, leaving the kitchen when he enters, locking him out when he shows up off duty out of uniform(we don't recognize you!)... etc.
    It is not simply that he smells, and chews with his mouth open. He shown his lack of knowledge and vision on fire scenes, however it has been to the extent where he could be canned for his actions. He has aslo demonstrated lack of concern for his firemen, but again it hasn't yet been grounds for termination, but his firemen his behavior and his actions spoke loud and clear to the crew on where they stood with his priorities.

    What can a minimally staffed union fire dept's firemen do to get this knob out?
    Nothing.

    If you do the above things you stated you might find yourself pounding the pavement due to creating a hostile and harassing work environment. He may not have your respect but he does have authority over you whether you like it or not. If his skills are weak try the "Hey Loo, can we do..... today for training?"

    There has to be another side to this story also...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lexfd5 View Post
    Nothing.

    If you do the above things you stated you might find yourself pounding the pavement due to creating a hostile and harassing work environment. He may not have your respect but he does have authority over you whether you like it or not. If his skills are weak try the "Hey Loo, can we do..... today for training?"

    I completely agree. If you act like a 5-year-old, you can expect to be treated like one. Act like an adult and you'll be treated likewise. Grow the hell up, show some maturity and
    stop degrading your officer and your department on an internet forum!


    There has to be another side to this story also...
    Actually, it's more likely that there are two...The "other" side and the truth.
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
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    As a UK firefighter I find your situation quiet bizzare. Surely when the job became vacant it was advertised and any and all suitable qualified applicants should have been able to apply for it.

    My question would be if none of you are happy with this newly promoted firefighter then why did you not apply for the job yourself?

    If someone applies for a job that know one else wants then you cant really complain if that person does does not meet your expectations. If he had the ambition to go for the promotion then good on him. On the other hand if he has been promoted above his capabilities then that is the responsibility of those who promoted him and it is up to them to address.

    To freeze some one out is not only very childish but also extremely unprofessional. If there are genuine concerns about this officer then take it through the appropriate channels.

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