Personnel Accountability on scene

[speedy9611]

I had a discussion with a couple of the other officers on my dept. the other day. I said we need an accountability system for everyone that is on scene, they said the only time the accountability system is used is when someone is entering the structure.

[djgilbert32]

Actually you should do accountablilty at all scenes including MVA, the more you do it, the natural it becomes. He says on when entering the structure, doesn't he what to know who may be doing venting operations on the roof?

[SFDE37]

And we all know that buildings don't collapse on firefighters conducting exterior operations.

[nameless]

everyone on the scene should be accounted for. there are a lot of things that could happen to anyone at any part of the fire ground.

What happens if you drop a guy off to catch a plug 500 ft away and the guy collapse from a heart attack or something? That guy could be lying in a ditch for a long time.

If you are volly its especially important to track everyone. If you have guys showing up in POV or piling anywhere from 1-8 guys in a truck, it can be very hard for the officer of the truck to keep track of his guys.

[ChiefKN]

In some states it's also the law...

New Jersey being one of them.

http://www.nj.gov/dca/dfs/accountabilitybook10.pdf

Once on the incident scene, the firefighter should place one tag at a central collection point as determined by SOP or the incident commander (IC). Such a point might be the incident command post or the apparatus that the firefighter responded with. Career firefighters might place this tag on their apparatus at the beginning of each shift if that is the department’s policy. A central collection point is necessary so that the IC and command staff have a reliable way to know who is operating on the incident scene as a whole.
The second tag is to be given to the Personnel Accountability Officer (PAO) upon entering any hazardous area. Usually, this will be when the firefighter enters a structure or space where they will be performing firefighting or rescue operations in an Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health (IDLH) atmosphere. However, this requirement also applies where firefighters may be
involved in wildland operations or confined space operations where there is a risk of becoming lost or disoriented either in wide expanses or maze-like areas. Upon leaving the hazardous area, the tag is to be retrieved by the firefighter.

The secondary tag should also be used when a firefighter checks into a rehabilitation station or a decontamination station or other specialized operational area at an incident scene. In this way, there is always someone other than the firefighters themselves that knows where they are and
what they are doing.

[speedy9611]

Everything that everyone has replied with, I totally agree with. After all that is the way I was trained. What would be the best way to get them to realize this, they are getting stuck on the guidelines from NIMS.

[ChiefKN]

Everything that everyone has replied with, I totally agree with. After all that is the way I was trained. What would be the best way to get them to realize this, they are getting stuck on the guidelines from NIMS.

What guidelines??

I'm not familiar with NIMS having guidelines for accountability?

[speedy9611]

I am researching that to see what they are talking about, as far as the NIMS guidlines.

[WCENG23]

We are currently using a passport type system and have for many years. It is simple to use and pretty cheap to set up.

[mcaldwell]

We use accountability on all runs, but have "levels" to accomodate for scale.

Level one is a one or two unit general response with no M/A. FF's place their tag on a velcro fob on the dash of thier engine, and it stays with the truck.

Level two is used for a larger response with the full fleet, and/or M/A. It is also automatic for any FF team on air with entry into an IDLH (Fire/Rescue/Confined Space, etc.). Each engine's fob is given to the IC or his accountability designate, and the units are tracked in detail for air and location.

We have a second tag system for entry (which we would call Level three), but have found it unecessarily redundant for such a small operation as ours. We still train it for the largest of M/A scenarios where we may have an entry officer.

[RFDACM02]

The second tag is to be given to the Personnel Accountability Officer (PAO) upon entering any hazardous area. Usually, this will be when the firefighter enters a structure or space where they will be performing firefighting or rescue operations in an Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health (IDLH) atmosphere. [/B]

ChiefKN: Can you elaborate on how some accomplish this part? We have the same 2 tag system but most of the time, the first due units make entry before the stationary IC arrives or sets up (if at all on stills). We require guys drop their tag at the door, onto a traffic cone with a wire loop or a door tag we loop over the knob or somewhere close to keep it off the ground. Alas, the cone rarely gets placed, as it means retrieving it, from a compartment when otherwise our tools are already in hand.

Honestly, the worst part is just getting it done. Whatever the system, you need to use it on every call so that it becomes second nature, I know when flames are showing this is one of the first things pushed to the back of the brain.

[ChiefKN]

ChiefKN: Can you elaborate on how some accomplish this part? We have the same 2 tag system but most of the time, the first due units make entry before the stationary IC arrives or sets up (if at all on stills). We require guys drop their tag at the door, onto a traffic cone with a wire loop or a door tag we loop over the knob or somewhere close to keep it off the ground. Alas, the cone rarely gets placed, as it means retrieving it, from a compartment when otherwise our tools are already in hand.

Honestly, the worst part is just getting it done. Whatever the system, you need to use it on every call so that it becomes second nature, I know when flames are showing this is one of the first things pushed to the back of the brain.

Sure

First tag goes from your coat to a ring inside the officer's door.

Second tag: If there is someone assigned to accountability (rare when first due gets there first). We have a six square inch orange hard plastic tag with a ring and the guys going interior put their tags on this and drop at the door. Most will attach enroute and one of them will drop it.

We used to just drop our tags at the door, but the tags would be scattered all over the place.

We have three chiefs going, 1 takes command and we do assign an operations officer who will usually grab the tags and work the entrance of the first line. So if they do forget the collector ring, he'll grab em.

We do use Juniors as the accountability officer. However, they need to be trained first.

[Fokker416]

A lot of Depts in this area use Velcro tags instead of tags on a ring. Each company has a plate velcroed to the dash and your personal tag is attached to that. At an incident the whole plate (aka passport) is brought to the accountability board where either companies or individual members can by placed on the board according to assignment. I've seen depts that use magnetic tags too so they can draw it out on an magnetic dry erase board and move units around the "map" they drew". It's basically the same as using tags on a ring, the only difference is that you can read it without searching through tags. Each tag is has the member's badge #, rank, name, EMT/PM. We're issued three tags and the spares are attached to the underside of our helmet. This has come in handy on a few occasions where an officer chose to keep accountability in a specific area of a large incident. It's a popular system here in northern FL, but I'm sure it's not unique to the area.

As a backup we also have ID tags on a clip. These serve two purposes. First, if we run mutual aid with a dept that uses a different system these tags sill integrate. Also the tag has the member's medical info (allergies, blood type, etc) and emergency contact information that's folded and laminated inside. In case of an injury requiring transport, the tag is given to EMS for the hospital.

[DeathValleyCap]

Fokker, could you let me know where you got your tags that let you laminate and fold in the emergency contact info.

txs, M

[Fokker416]

We do it in house. The card has a place for your name and some fire dept stuff (patch ect) printed on one side. The other side has a form with allergies, emergency contact, blood type, med history, and I think religion (I haven't changed tags in a while) there may be more. The card is folded so the private info is on the inside. The card folds down to the size of a drivers license, we then run it through an ID tag lamination machine we have in the office. We attach an ID clip to it so we can hang them in the rig. Like I said before this is a backup to our primary system of the solid plastic tags.

If you or anyone else is interested I'll try to get an electronic copy or at least take a pic or two. I've been meaning to learn how to upload files on here.

[DeathValleyCap]

Fokker,
I understand. Many thanks, sounds like a good system.
Stay low, M

[ffmedcbk1]

the best accountability system is the Company Officer and watching over the crew...

that said, passports used but only in hazard areas. don't know if anyone has a standard about acct in non-hazard areas????

[Digitalwoodshop]

This is my first post. Great Place !!!!

I was pointed to this site by a customer that I sent some Accountability Tag Samples to.

I make Epoxy Domed Accountability Tags and other Fire Stuff.

Thanks,

AL