1. #1
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    Default ICS in Refineries or Industrial settings

    Hi

    I'm wondering if any in your industry is implimenting ICS? and how it is set in terms of essential functions?

    Here in Kuwait the setting is that the IC is mainly from Operations not from company fire department .. so I'm wondering what is your ICS organizational structure you are using ?

    thanks
    7773587

  2. #2
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    Not positive on what your asking so if I'm off base, then my apologies...

    The crux is management and ICS will meld at some point and then managment is going to be in the ICS. These are people that are managers and are used to being the boss and that usually have no experience mitigating an emergency situation. Ideally, Logisitics is a great place for them and/or have them man the EOC and fill as many of the support functions as possible.

    You will find managers will freelance their *** off until you give them something to do. Focus the energy and you'll get what you want... hopefully.

    Make it however you want but make sure it's in writing. I have never been in a facility that didn't have a managerial chain of command and they sign off on the SOP's or guidelines and should be well aware of what position they will hold if an emergency situation arises.

    Regardless, the work title needs to be associated with a position in the ICS and not the name of the manager. For example... different people may be Plant Manager on different days (say the big guy/gal is on vacation and the duty falls to the Technical Manager) so you will always have a "Plant Manager" it just may be Bill today and Judy tomorrow.

    I have some Emergency Response SOP's I can send you as a guidleline if this is what your after.

    Be safe, R2

  3. #3
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    We put all our personnel through NIMS training.

    Our shift supervisors were the IC's. By implementing NIMS, all terms are standardized. By the structure of the organization, I had to put plant management as part of a unified command structure. NIMS is not required specifically by the NIMS protocols, but due to being on the Texas Coast, I got management support due to the large scale response that would be needed for that type of event. Public relations was a big deal to my site, so we provided some offsite response as well. NIMS streamlined some of those training requirements.

    For smaller scale events, the IC was at the incident site. For larger, they moved to the EOC and my ERT leader (I had 2 per shift) became the Operations Sector.

    Positions such as PIO, communications, etc were designated in the ERP and were given to specific members of management.

    We used the model setup by Refinery Terminal Fire Company (www.rtfc.org) as they were part of our mutual aid network.

    Being in Kuwait, NIMS would not apply, but the theories do still apply.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertr2m View Post
    Not positive on what your asking so if I'm off base, then my apologies...

    The crux is management and ICS will meld at some point and then managment is going to be in the ICS. These are people that are managers and are used to being the boss and that usually have no experience mitigating an emergency situation. Ideally, Logisitics is a great place for them and/or have them man the EOC and fill as many of the support functions as possible.

    You will find managers will freelance their *** off until you give them something to do. Focus the energy and you'll get what you want... hopefully.

    Make it however you want but make sure it's in writing. I have never been in a facility that didn't have a managerial chain of command and they sign off on the SOP's or guidelines and should be well aware of what position they will hold if an emergency situation arises.

    Regardless, the work title needs to be associated with a position in the ICS and not the name of the manager. For example... different people may be Plant Manager on different days (say the big guy/gal is on vacation and the duty falls to the Technical Manager) so you will always have a "Plant Manager" it just may be Bill today and Judy tomorrow.

    I have some Emergency Response SOP's I can send you as a guidleline if this is what your after.

    Be safe, R2
    Thank you for your feedback and I appreciate your time spent in replying to my question.

    Our emergency plan does not address ICS, and it got so complex that somehow it got everybody involved in it regardless of benefits that might come from them. I agree with you there managers and also CEOs freelancing during the emergency trying get involved sometimes in how firefighters should do their jobs of putting out the fire. Thatís why it is important for me to sell the ICS to our company in order to have a systematic and holistic approach in dealing with such major incident.

    I would like to share with you the SOPs that you follow and see how it would fit in our system. Here is my email:

    q8fire@hotmail.com

    thanks again for your feedback
    7773587

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firegod32 View Post
    We put all our personnel through NIMS training.

    Our shift supervisors were the IC's. By implementing NIMS, all terms are standardized. By the structure of the organization, I had to put plant management as part of a unified command structure. NIMS is not required specifically by the NIMS protocols, but due to being on the Texas Coast, I got management support due to the large scale response that would be needed for that type of event. Public relations was a big deal to my site, so we provided some offsite response as well. NIMS streamlined some of those training requirements.

    For smaller scale events, the IC was at the incident site. For larger, they moved to the EOC and my ERT leader (I had 2 per shift) became the Operations Sector.

    Positions such as PIO, communications, etc were designated in the ERP and were given to specific members of management.

    We used the model setup by Refinery Terminal Fire Company (www.rtfc.org) as they were part of our mutual aid network.

    Being in Kuwait, NIMS would not apply, but the theories do still apply.
    Thank you for your feedback and I appreciate your time spent in replying to my question.

    My ultimate goal is to get the whole country adopt NIMS with some tweaks to accommodate our system here in Kuwait. Weíve had several people from Homeland Security and FEMA presented to us (when I was in the Fire Department) NIMS concept.

    In my opinion, it would work with us with little modification. but this requires political decision which is little bit difficult to obtain because some guys are living their own world. Anyhow, if I could implement ICS in our refinery it would be like a seed that will grow bigger when you see a success in doing it that will encourage others to follow.

    Would you please share with me your model that you are using, and in return I will send you my proposed ICS to our refinery that Iím still working on and get your opinion.

    My email is:

    q8fire@hotmail.com

    Best Regards
    7773587

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    Q8,

    You should look at the system the Fed agencies are using on the ground. The Forest Service, BLM, NPS. It is the org. system that NIMS is based off of. NIMS just came into the playground after Katrina really. Our system has been in place a bit longer and allows the operation folks at the refinery to be involved and have input, but in the end. The folks that know fire and fire safety are the ones running the show. NYFD is using the same system and has a team qualified under our standards. The quals may be lacking there in Kuwait, but I am not sure. The system is pretty adaptable to the current reason for it being implemented. I think I can dig up some electronic teaching materials for you. So you can look at how it is designed. The nice thing about it. It was pulled orginally from the military and has had some serious trial by fire! It works great on the battlefield, fireground, or any other type of paramilitary area. I will try to send the stuff on when I return back to work after the weekend.

    ForTech
    "The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action."

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