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  1. #41
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I'm in on that. The same people so willing to call someone else a "mutt" can't even kick a brother's bunk as they go by. There is nothing that makes you a mutt more than screwing the guys you work with.

    And what about the guy who continues to sleep thru runs, are they not screwing the other guys? Are they not causing a delay in responding that could be a problem? We're all paid pretty decently to get our *** on that rig and out the door.
    And there is that term "mutt" getting thrown around again, inappropriately.

    I have no problem with kicking the bunk of a guy who has missed a run, but it always seems like it is the same guy. The carpet will get worn thin at some point. We're all adults, and if you continually sleep thru a run, then you need to do something about it.

    To me, this is kind of like the guy who is always late for work. We have a tardiness control policy in place, which can result in a member losing their job if they are late enough times.

    We will call them, we will cover for them, we have guys willing to stay late following a shift - at no pay- so that the late member doesn't get written up and lose money. At what point do you stop babying them? At what point does the guy who is sleeping thru runs stop letting his guys down? Part of being in a firehouse is doing your part of everything, and part of that is making sure you are on that rig.


    If you are that tired, and if you continue to sleep thru runs, sleep in the rig.


  2. #42
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Not hearing something in your F'ing sleep is not an example of somebody not doing their job.
    On the contrary; getting one's *** up and on the rig at night is the job.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    Excellent idea, I'm sure the other guys on the truck want someone riding with them to the 5am fire that hasn't slept in 20 hours. If his co-workers can't look over to see if he is in his bunk, something is wrong.

    I find it hard to believe you are even that bent out of shape about it.
    I am not sure where you work, but I have worked plenty of tours in the firehouse where we were up for 20 hours straight. This is the reason we are given days and nights off. It is called shift work.

    You are at work!!! It isn't your god-given right to get a full nights sleep. Waking up for a run falls under something that should be your individual responsibliity as an adult and a professional.

    I am not bent out of shape about it in the least. I just think it is childish and immature for the original poster to insinuate that someone should of had his back and woke him up. He should have his own back first.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaredMTFD View Post
    Anyone who says otherwise has the wrong attitude. In the same way, anyone who says something ignorant like "well, just stay awake and don't sleep" is also full of it, because no one should be asked to stay awake for 24 hours. When we are working, we have a tough job to do, and adequate rest and sleep is necessary.
    If you work in a busy company, it is reasonable that you would be up for your entire 24 hour shift. It has certainly happened to me many times, as I m sure it has for several other posters.

    Are you suggesting that you should not have to go on a run late into your tour because you are tired?

    Sounds like you are the one that is "full of it".

    If it is "adequte rest and sleep" you are looking for, go work a 9 to 5.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    I bet some of you are real popular people to work with or for.

    I am the Officer in my house and guess what.......sometimes I will sleep through the run.

    Not hearing something in your F'ing sleep is not an example of somebody not doing their job. What is the problem with someone telling you they are a hard sleeper and asking you to make sure they here the tone and get up? Nothing.

    Jakesdad, SlipperyPete.....read the signature below. Sometimes you guys are dead on. On this one, your both dead wrong.
    You are entitled to your opinion.

    But 3 times in 3 months, as the original poster stated, is excessive.

    Waking up for a run is about the most minimal, basic task that can possibly be asked of someone in the firehouse.

    If you need help with this, what else do you need help with?

    If you are stating that you have also slept through runs, then I can see your bias towards this topic.

    But this is about taking a little personal responsibility. Something so many preach on here when it comes to just about everything else.

    But now when it comes to something as simple as WAKING UP, we need help with this?

    I am not saying that he be left behind, or not woken up. But to even suggest that it should be someone elses responsibility to get him up is insulting to those that can actually do this basic life skill all on their own.

    Most of use would miss a run one time, and then do WHATEVER POSSIBLE to not let it happen again.

    Some might even go as far as to...dare I say it....not sleep while at work. Gasp! The Horror!!

    We can agree to disagree on this one.

  6. #46
    Forum Member hefightsfire99's Avatar
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    So instead of joining in the soap box session, I have to say I agree with the folks that said turn up the volume on the radio or audio system, sleep under a speaker or near the door, and try to come to work well rested. Nothing at all with having a buddy to help out either. As far as being on OT, why not say something to one of the guys like "I'm dead tired after yesterday, can you make sure I'm up if we get called out?"

    The guys at the station are some of my best friends. Yes it's my job, but we look out for each other at every turn. Just because someone is a heavy sleeper doesn't keep them from being an awesome firefighter. It has nothing to do with "personal responsibility". It's not something they even did willingly.
    Last edited by hefightsfire99; 01-17-2009 at 12:01 PM.
    "...When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you." Isaiah 43:2

  7. #47
    Forum Member Station2Capt's Avatar
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    As the Captain I know my men and their sleeping habits. I do have one guy that is a heavy sleeper. I know this because we have worked together for years. Whenever the alarm goes even if it is for the medic and not the engine I look around to make sure everyone is moving that should be moving. If I see that one of the guys has not started to get up I simply holler across the room “Hey Joe we got a call.” And that is all it normally takes. To not wake someone up because “It’s not your job” does not promote good teamwork which make more problems for the overall station life. Everyone sleeps at different levels, me I sleep very light I always have and always will, but others are heavy sleepers. This does not mean that they are lazy or sorry fire fighter it just means they are heavy sleepers. Do what it takes to make sure they wake up for the call. Now if I ever had a guy that kept on sleeping even after I gave my “courtesy holler” and then went over kicked his bed as he rolled over like a school kid wanting to get “just 5 more minutes” that would be a totally different issue
    A "Good" fire is not measured by how big it is, but by the fact that everyone is going home safe, and that we possibly learned something new about firefighting. Member:IACOJ

  8. #48
    Forum Member hefightsfire99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Station2Capt View Post
    As the Captain I know my men and their sleeping habits. I do have one guy that is a heavy sleeper. I know this because we have worked together for years. Whenever the alarm goes even if it is for the medic and not the engine I look around to make sure everyone is moving that should be moving. If I see that one of the guys has not started to get up I simply holler across the room “Hey Joe we got a call.” And that is all it normally takes. To not wake someone up because “It’s not your job” does not promote good teamwork which make more problems for the overall station life. Everyone sleeps at different levels, me I sleep very light I always have and always will, but others are heavy sleepers. This does not mean that they are lazy or sorry fire fighter it just means they are heavy sleepers. Do what it takes to make sure they wake up for the call. Now if I ever had a guy that kept on sleeping even after I gave my “courtesy holler” and then went over kicked his bed as he rolled over like a school kid wanting to get “just 5 more minutes” that would be a totally different issue
    AMEN!!!! Right on track brother.
    "...When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you." Isaiah 43:2

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hefightsfire99 View Post
    It has nothing to do with "personal responsibility". It's not something they even did willingly.
    No body finds this an acceptable excuse for not waking up when you are supposed to.

    If you think they do, try floating this excuse at a job interview or a mortgage closing.

    It has EVERYTHING to do with personal responsibility.

    No it doesn't make someone a bad firefighter, or a bad person. But how anyone can't think that you and you alone should be responsible for waking up for things you are supposed to wake up for is beyond me.

    Most of us have learned to wake up on our own for important things by the time we are in 5th grade. What is so different or less important about waking up for a run while you are at work?

  10. #50
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
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    I work out of a pretty busy house. We'll average 5 to 7 calls after midnight. It is not uncommon to run all through the night either. I would much rather stay awake all night then to return from a call, just get to sleep and be tapped out for another. I feel way more tired for my second day if I have been up and down all night as opposed to just up all night.
    Our Captains are not against an extra long lunch break either, so the noon nap helps.
    IAFF

  11. #51
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    I'm surprised that no has brought up the possiblity that the OP may have some physical issue that's causing him to sleep through calls. Anyone ever heard of "Sleep Apnea"?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea


    One of the classic signs is excessive sleepiness/difficulty in waking when asleep.

    (disclaimer: I am not a Dr., nor have I recently slept at a Holiday Inn Express)
    No good deed goes unpunished

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    It shouldn't be someones elses' responsibility to "get your back" and wake you up.

    Its what you do for your brothers...You get their back on everything. Atleast thats the way it is in my house
    Buck
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  13. #53
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    I'm surprised a lot of you have jobs because you have no reading comprehension.

    1.) This guy came here looking for advice to fix the problem. No where did he insinuate that he has solved it by getting someone to watch his back. Its what he is doing in the interim until a better solution can be found.

    2.) I never said we deserved to sleep or we get to skip calls so we can get some sleep at night, but I figured if any of you guys have the experience you claim to you'd realize if you have the opportunity to sleep its pretty idiotic to turn it down.

    3.) A lot of you are mutts. Help a brother out for god sakes.


    -e-

    As someone else said, just because he is a heavy sleeper doesn't make him lazy or a bad fireman. I'm sure all of you have your own flaws.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I'm surprised a lot of you have jobs because you have no reading comprehension.

    1.) This guy came here looking for advice to fix the problem. No where did he insinuate that he has solved it by getting someone to watch his back. Its what he is doing in the interim until a better solution can be found.

    2.) I never said we deserved to sleep or we get to skip calls so we can get some sleep at night, but I figured if any of you guys have the experience you claim to you'd realize if you have the opportunity to sleep its pretty idiotic to turn it down.

    3.) A lot of you are mutts. Help a brother out for god sakes.


    -e-

    As someone else said, just because he is a heavy sleeper doesn't make him lazy or a bad fireman. I'm sure all of you have your own flaws.
    'Well I was on OT and didn't have someone watching my back."

    Now i am no Einstein but that sure sounds like he relies on someone else to watch his back.

    The Op only solicited help after an incident on a different shift for which i assume he caught some crap for. He knew about this issue for at least three months but had the problem solved by his fellow backstepper.

    I don't think this makes him a bad FF, I don't know anything about his Firefighting. What i do know is that not addressing the issue makes him irresponsible.

    Also, i an trying to understand what is "brotherly" about calling some of us mutts?

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipperypete View Post
    Also, i an trying to understand what is "brotherly" about calling some of us mutts?
    When someone shows an extreme lack of brotherhood, that deserves being called a mutt.

    Several of the people falling into the mutt category are pretty liberal with the word anyways, so what the heck, just going to let it fly.

  16. #56
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    Talking

    Why kick his rack when you can kick his sack? Bet he won't sleep through it twice!

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  17. #57
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    I think there's a sliding scale here. There's a big difference between the guy that has seriously "tried everything" but he still sometimes sleeps. He sleeps by the door so it's easy for the crew to give his bed a kick. That's way different from the guy who sleeps in the furthest corner from any door, it seems like he sleeps through every other shift or so, and he doesn't seem to care. In my eyes the first person is doing their best and helping him is just part of teamwork. The second guy really isn't taking his job seriously. I don't know where the OP falls, although he is sticking his neck out on here to solve his problem.

    Like pretty much every other issue in this business, everything is situation specific.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I'm surprised a lot of you have jobs because you have no reading comprehension.

    1.) This guy came here looking for advice to fix the problem. No where did he insinuate that he has solved it by getting someone to watch his back. Its what he is doing in the interim until a better solution can be found.

    2.) I never said we deserved to sleep or we get to skip calls so we can get some sleep at night, but I figured if any of you guys have the experience you claim to you'd realize if you have the opportunity to sleep its pretty idiotic to turn it down.

    3.) A lot of you are mutts. Help a brother out for god sakes.


    -e-

    As someone else said, just because he is a heavy sleeper doesn't make him lazy or a bad fireman. I'm sure all of you have your own flaws.

    He didnt just "insinuate" that he slept through the tones because someone didn't have his back...he flat out said it.

    And its only idiotic to turn down sleep if you can be responsible enough to wake up for a run.

    If the original poster has slept through a run THREE TIMES, then I hardly think it is unreasonable to ask him to stay awake so he can actually do what is required of him.

    And if that makes me a mutt in your eyes, so be it sleepy. I have been called much worse by much better.

  19. #59
    Forum Member hefightsfire99's Avatar
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    So when your asleep, you are still in control of all your faculties? If someone did ONE THING intentionally that was wrong, bust their balls, write them up, whatever. When someone is asleep they aren't in control of anything. I know guys who talk in their sleep. My girlfriend occasionally jumps up out of the bed and starts defending herself from bats, monsters, or whatever and remembers nothing about it the next day. The first time I remember her waking up she was trying to get out the window!

    Maybe it is sleep apnea as was mentioned. Two of the guys on my last crew had it and both were using CPAP machines. Before that they said they always felt worse when they woke up in the mornings than when they went to bed at night. Try going a few years with untreated sleep apnea, getting only a few minutes on the hour every of sleep every night, and then see how exhausted you become.

    I know this, after being up almost 48 hours straight I'm a zombie. When I do get to crash in my own bed I've slept through phone calls, alarm clocks, the vacuum running...

    I wouldn't think anything about making sure my partner was up on every call. It takes two seconds to look their way and it they aren't moving give a shout. Even less to kick their bunk on the way out.
    "...When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you." Isaiah 43:2

  20. #60
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    Promote to the point where they can't leave without you. Problem solved.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

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