1. #51
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    I'm surprised that no has brought up the possiblity that the OP may have some physical issue that's causing him to sleep through calls. Anyone ever heard of "Sleep Apnea"?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea


    One of the classic signs is excessive sleepiness/difficulty in waking when asleep.

    (disclaimer: I am not a Dr., nor have I recently slept at a Holiday Inn Express)
    No good deed goes unpunished

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    It shouldn't be someones elses' responsibility to "get your back" and wake you up.

    Its what you do for your brothers...You get their back on everything. Atleast thats the way it is in my house
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    I'm surprised a lot of you have jobs because you have no reading comprehension.

    1.) This guy came here looking for advice to fix the problem. No where did he insinuate that he has solved it by getting someone to watch his back. Its what he is doing in the interim until a better solution can be found.

    2.) I never said we deserved to sleep or we get to skip calls so we can get some sleep at night, but I figured if any of you guys have the experience you claim to you'd realize if you have the opportunity to sleep its pretty idiotic to turn it down.

    3.) A lot of you are mutts. Help a brother out for god sakes.


    -e-

    As someone else said, just because he is a heavy sleeper doesn't make him lazy or a bad fireman. I'm sure all of you have your own flaws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I'm surprised a lot of you have jobs because you have no reading comprehension.

    1.) This guy came here looking for advice to fix the problem. No where did he insinuate that he has solved it by getting someone to watch his back. Its what he is doing in the interim until a better solution can be found.

    2.) I never said we deserved to sleep or we get to skip calls so we can get some sleep at night, but I figured if any of you guys have the experience you claim to you'd realize if you have the opportunity to sleep its pretty idiotic to turn it down.

    3.) A lot of you are mutts. Help a brother out for god sakes.


    -e-

    As someone else said, just because he is a heavy sleeper doesn't make him lazy or a bad fireman. I'm sure all of you have your own flaws.
    'Well I was on OT and didn't have someone watching my back."

    Now i am no Einstein but that sure sounds like he relies on someone else to watch his back.

    The Op only solicited help after an incident on a different shift for which i assume he caught some crap for. He knew about this issue for at least three months but had the problem solved by his fellow backstepper.

    I don't think this makes him a bad FF, I don't know anything about his Firefighting. What i do know is that not addressing the issue makes him irresponsible.

    Also, i an trying to understand what is "brotherly" about calling some of us mutts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slipperypete View Post
    Also, i an trying to understand what is "brotherly" about calling some of us mutts?
    When someone shows an extreme lack of brotherhood, that deserves being called a mutt.

    Several of the people falling into the mutt category are pretty liberal with the word anyways, so what the heck, just going to let it fly.

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    Why kick his rack when you can kick his sack? Bet he won't sleep through it twice!

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    I think there's a sliding scale here. There's a big difference between the guy that has seriously "tried everything" but he still sometimes sleeps. He sleeps by the door so it's easy for the crew to give his bed a kick. That's way different from the guy who sleeps in the furthest corner from any door, it seems like he sleeps through every other shift or so, and he doesn't seem to care. In my eyes the first person is doing their best and helping him is just part of teamwork. The second guy really isn't taking his job seriously. I don't know where the OP falls, although he is sticking his neck out on here to solve his problem.

    Like pretty much every other issue in this business, everything is situation specific.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I'm surprised a lot of you have jobs because you have no reading comprehension.

    1.) This guy came here looking for advice to fix the problem. No where did he insinuate that he has solved it by getting someone to watch his back. Its what he is doing in the interim until a better solution can be found.

    2.) I never said we deserved to sleep or we get to skip calls so we can get some sleep at night, but I figured if any of you guys have the experience you claim to you'd realize if you have the opportunity to sleep its pretty idiotic to turn it down.

    3.) A lot of you are mutts. Help a brother out for god sakes.


    -e-

    As someone else said, just because he is a heavy sleeper doesn't make him lazy or a bad fireman. I'm sure all of you have your own flaws.

    He didnt just "insinuate" that he slept through the tones because someone didn't have his back...he flat out said it.

    And its only idiotic to turn down sleep if you can be responsible enough to wake up for a run.

    If the original poster has slept through a run THREE TIMES, then I hardly think it is unreasonable to ask him to stay awake so he can actually do what is required of him.

    And if that makes me a mutt in your eyes, so be it sleepy. I have been called much worse by much better.

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    So when your asleep, you are still in control of all your faculties? If someone did ONE THING intentionally that was wrong, bust their balls, write them up, whatever. When someone is asleep they aren't in control of anything. I know guys who talk in their sleep. My girlfriend occasionally jumps up out of the bed and starts defending herself from bats, monsters, or whatever and remembers nothing about it the next day. The first time I remember her waking up she was trying to get out the window!

    Maybe it is sleep apnea as was mentioned. Two of the guys on my last crew had it and both were using CPAP machines. Before that they said they always felt worse when they woke up in the mornings than when they went to bed at night. Try going a few years with untreated sleep apnea, getting only a few minutes on the hour every of sleep every night, and then see how exhausted you become.

    I know this, after being up almost 48 hours straight I'm a zombie. When I do get to crash in my own bed I've slept through phone calls, alarm clocks, the vacuum running...

    I wouldn't think anything about making sure my partner was up on every call. It takes two seconds to look their way and it they aren't moving give a shout. Even less to kick their bunk on the way out.
    "...When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you." Isaiah 43:2

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    Promote to the point where they can't leave without you. Problem solved.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    Waking up for a run is about the most minimal, basic task that can possibly be asked of someone in the firehouse.

    If you need help with this, what else do you need help with?
    I'm not great at waking up, but never needed help with anything else. Somebody bangs on my door on occasion because I just don't hear it. I remember waking up, trying to turn off the lights, and being real wierded out when the switch didn't work. Hearing the pumper crank got the message to me. There was another fella I piped with who slept like a stone, and he never needed any help with anything else, either.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

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    I don't think that the OP really thinks that it's someone elses job to "wake him up". I think the intent of his statement was "Hey why didn't anyone let me know there was a call." Some posters are bashing this guy for asking a question and asking for advise. Yea he said that "No one had his back" and he slept through a call but, is that the way he really wanted it to come accross? He has not posted a reply so we may never know. The bottom line, in my opinion is we are all a team when it comes to this job. Take care of a brother, if you notice he/she did not wake up when the alarm sounds give him/her a shake and say "Hey bro we got a run" how hard can it be. The best advise I can give the OP is next time you work OT or at a staion you do not normally work is talk to the Station officer and tell him/her that you are a heavy sleeper and "IF" you happen to not wake up when the alarm sounds would you "please give me holler or kick my bed". Doing this is not asking someone else to "do your job" it is just letting the people you work with know in advance that you are a heavy sleeper.
    A "Good" fire is not measured by how big it is, but by the fact that everyone is going home safe, and that we possibly learned something new about firefighting. Member:IACOJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOgreg View Post
    I'm surprised that no has brought up the possiblity that the OP may have some physical issue that's causing him to sleep through calls. Anyone ever heard of "Sleep Apnea"?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea


    One of the classic signs is excessive sleepiness/difficulty in waking when asleep.

    (disclaimer: I am not a Dr., nor have I recently slept at a Holiday Inn Express)
    Quite possible. I was diagnosed with it while I was on midnight shift. Once I got off midnight, I was able to break it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Station2Capt View Post
    I don't think that the OP really thinks that it's someone elses job to "wake him up". I think the intent of his statement was "Hey why didn't anyone let me know there was a call." Some posters are bashing this guy for asking a question and asking for advise. Yea he said that "No one had his back" and he slept through a call but, is that the way he really wanted it to come accross? He has not posted a reply so we may never know. The bottom line, in my opinion is we are all a team when it comes to this job. Take care of a brother, if you notice he/she did not wake up when the alarm sounds give him/her a shake and say "Hey bro we got a run" how hard can it be. The best advise I can give the OP is next time you work OT or at a staion you do not normally work is talk to the Station officer and tell him/her that you are a heavy sleeper and "IF" you happen to not wake up when the alarm sounds would you "please give me holler or kick my bed". Doing this is not asking someone else to "do your job" it is just letting the people you work with know in advance that you are a heavy sleeper.
    I have been quite busy since posting here. I never thought I would come back to 4 pages of responses. I figured I would have gotten some of the negative responses that were posted here. Let me clear some things up.

    I have been a firefighter for over 5 years. I started with a new department the work schedule is 24/24. I have never had an issue waking up for calls. I responded quite well to the lights and tones. Even still, I know some people that need that extra "hey" to get going.

    I felt like ****, and got **** I deserved each of the 3 times I missed a call. It worked out to be once a month. For me 3rd time was the personal kicker. There is an issue that needs correcting. I was left behind twice, and yelled at over the intercom.

    We don't have lights kicking on, don't know if that can be changed.
    We are not issued pagers, the guys on the box get one so I might be able to request one.
    Speaker volume, have to look into that too.

    To those who think it is above them to give a yell, or whatnot. I hope my family never has to pay the ultimate price since it is beyond you to ensure a fellow brother makes it out. Out of a structure fire, hazmat, or bed we are all closer than family.

    I am here to look for advice into correcting the problem before it escalates beyond firehouse jabs. My officers have not said anything, but I do not want it to come to that. My first step was to speak with the fellow backstepers on my shift. Talking has been productive. One of my fellow brothers informed me that my symptoms are similiar to Sleep Apnea. He had the same issue until he sought treatment from a doctor. His experience was similiar to mine. He had no issue when lights shined into his eyes, however his mind did not kick him awake to the sound.

    I appreciate the positive and negative comments here. There are two political parties for just that reason, we do not all think alike. However remember we are all doing the same job. If you have an issue waking a brother, do you have an issue saving a brother. To me they are one in the same.

    I will keep you guys updated on my progress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Station2Capt View Post
    Doing this is not asking someone else to "do your job" it is just letting the people you work with know in advance that you are a heavy sleeper.
    Layoffs...reduced staffing...riding shorthanded....vacant buildings everywhere...less funding for training...atacks of our pension and benefits...

    And now here we are debating the merits of a solid nights sleep while at work.

    If someone is such a heavy sleeper while they are AT WORK...then there is a good chance this isn't the right profession for that person.

    And if they repeatedly sleep through the alarm, it isn't so far fetched to ask that person not to GO TO SLEEP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    Layoffs...reduced staffing...riding shorthanded....vacant buildings everywhere...less funding for training...atacks of our pension and benefits...

    And now here we are debating the merits of a solid nights sleep while at work.

    If someone is such a heavy sleeper while they are AT WORK...then there is a good chance this isn't the right profession for that person.

    And if they repeatedly sleep through the alarm, it isn't so far fetched to ask that person not to GO TO SLEEP!

    You need to relax a bit. If someone sleeps through a tone every once in awhile, SO WHAT!!??. We look out for each other because that's what we do. If someone was having a problem using a tool, would you kick them while they were down? Would you REFUSE to help them out. Fire service needs to start getting rid of people like you.

    B.M.A (brothers my *****)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pipeman2 View Post
    Why kick his rack when you can kick his sack? Bet he won't sleep through it twice!

    FTM PTB RFB
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    There were guys in my ship that would wake up when you came by to get them for watch and then go right back to dreamland because they knew if they were late,they could get the watchstander that did wake-ups in trouble by claiming he never came by their rack.
    That ended when an officer found me pulling a double watch and brought the hard sleeper up on charges.After all,why would I be so nice to someone screwing me that way by letting him sleep in when I did wakeups?
    Those advocating that you try a swift one to the nads,or water or jolts of low voltage to a hard sleeper never seem to say how many times they have done so nor do they mention the results.You might want to make sure that you're the biggest dog on the block first.
    I've never worked in a paid department and as volunteers,we relied on pagers to get people to respond.After I got over the thrill of having a pager and being able to hear all the calls,I figured it was better to keep the thing on my department's channel instead of the county wide.
    That way the only calls I could hear would be ours and not the other 4 departments in the county waking me up.With the volume up to full war emergency power right by the bed,I had no trouble hearing the tones drop.
    I've worked two jobs at once for a total of 80 hours a week.60 in five days on the river slinging rigging here in Memphis and playing security guard for the other 20.
    Before I got the guard company to drop my hours,I was pulling 100 hours a week thanking God that I worked for pilots that would let me doze on runs to the city front from McKellar Lake.Otherwise,between June and October 1992,I would have only gotten 45 minutes of sleep.
    I learned to be able to sleep in short bits and I caught up when the river job let me have two days off in a row.Obviously,it would have been bad form to sleep while on a security post somewhere so I didn't.
    Learning to manage sleep patterns is hard but it can be done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    Layoffs...reduced staffing...riding shorthanded....vacant buildings everywhere...less funding for training...atacks of our pension and benefits...

    And now here we are debating the merits of a solid nights sleep while at work.

    If someone is such a heavy sleeper while they are AT WORK...then there is a good chance this isn't the right profession for that person.

    And if they repeatedly sleep through the alarm, it isn't so far fetched to ask that person not to GO TO SLEEP!
    Ok, this just makes me laugh. Let's just make mountains out of every molehill. If you have trouble waking, you can't be a firefighter. If you sprain your ankle it must be that you have weak joints and are prone to injury so you shouldn't be a firefighter. If you ever struggle with a bad call, you obviously are too mentally weak and need to be in a desk job. Diabetes even if it's well in control? You're out. Superman has that Kryptonite thing so he need not apply, just in case.

    How about this? Every one of you who want to attack this brother, who came here admitting there was a problem and asking for help, go create another thread and just have it out with each other about why nobody else is as qualified to be a firefighter as you guys are.
    "...When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you." Isaiah 43:2

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    [QUOTE=jakesdad;1025503]
    If someone is such a heavy sleeper while they are AT WORK...then there is a good chance this isn't the right profession for that person.
    QUOTE]

    And if someone is such a Jerk that they are not willing to help a brother once a month then maybe just maybe this isn't the right profession for them either.
    A "Good" fire is not measured by how big it is, but by the fact that everyone is going home safe, and that we possibly learned something new about firefighting. Member:IACOJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Station2Capt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    If someone is such a heavy sleeper while they are AT WORK...then there is a good chance this isn't the right profession for that person.
    And if someone is such a Jerk that they are not willing to help a brother once a month then maybe just maybe this isn't the right profession for them either.
    I conquer with your assessment of the situation. It's not like the guy is saying he is too tired to get up, he simply didn't hear the house tones for whatever reason while sleeping. In addition, if prior to going to bed he notifies someone to make sure he gets up it is really no big deal as I have been saying all along.

    Just last night, on about our 5th run after midnight, I slept smooth through another first responder. Guess what, my guys know that I will occasionally sleep through the tones and the guy that sleeps across from me kicked the bed and said "Hey Loo, we got another one." If this hasn't happened to you, your just one day closer until it does.

    Will you guys that are so offended by this resign or graciously accept whatever discipline is dished out? I doubt either. If your lucky, it will not be made to be a big deal. If it is, you will be looking for all the "brothers" you've been berating for back up and/or union support.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    Layoffs...reduced staffing...riding shorthanded....vacant buildings everywhere...less funding for training...atacks of our pension and benefits...

    And now here we are debating the merits of a solid nights sleep while at work.

    If someone is such a heavy sleeper while they are AT WORK...then there is a good chance this isn't the right profession for that person.

    And if they repeatedly sleep through the alarm, it isn't so far fetched to ask that person not to GO TO SLEEP!
    Is the story here really that you didn't wake up for a call one time and that you took such a beating over it that now you can't see it ever being anything other than unforgivable? Because frankly you are getting way too damn wound up over this. I have been a career firefighter for 18 years and yep, I have slept through a couple of alarms. Guess what, my BROTHERS in the house had my back. When one of them over slept I had there back. It is not nearly the end of the world, gloom and doom, terriblefirefighter BS you are making it ouyt to be. I guess I can add you to the list of guys on here that I am glad I don't work with.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 01-18-2009 at 09:34 PM.

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    From the sounds of it, it appears that many of you rely on getting a full nights sleep while at work, and anything that might interfere with that is an outrage.

    Seems like it might be time for some of you to wake up. Literally.

    I wonder if you would have the balls to discuss your sleep issues with the mayors of your cities or the people that decide your pay raises and benefits.

    If you wouldnt, then it would probably be best to keep it off of here as well.

    We really are our own worst enemy sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Is the story here really that you didn't wake up for a call one time and that you took such a beating over it that now you can't see it ever being anything other than unforgivable? Because franly you are getting way too damn wound up over this. I have been a career firefighter for 18 years and yep, I have slept through a couple of alarms. Guess what, my BROTHERS in the house had my back. When one of them over slept I had there back. It is not nearly the end of the world, gloom and doom, terriblefirefighter BS you are making it ouyt to be. I guess I can add you to the list of guys on here that I am glad I don't work with.
    FyredUp,

    I would really like to have this guy in my house, just for one shift. If he came into my house with his "Holier-than-thou" attitude knocking a brother for something like this then he better be good and ready for my wrath when he made a mistake.
    A "Good" fire is not measured by how big it is, but by the fact that everyone is going home safe, and that we possibly learned something new about firefighting. Member:IACOJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    From the sounds of it, it appears that many of you rely on getting a full nights sleep while at work, and anything that might interfere with that is an outrage.

    Seems like it might be time for some of you to wake up. Literally.

    I wonder if you would have the balls to discuss your sleep issues with the mayors of your cities or the people that decide your pay raises and benefits.

    If you wouldnt, then it would probably be best to keep it off of here as well.
    You seem to be having a lot of trouble with this concept. No one is saying they deserve to sleep or that they hear the call and say "screw that I've got to get some beauty sleep" and turn over. Some people just aren't good at waking up. The guy had a problem, he thought he found a solution. Turns out his solution isn't fool proof so now he is looking for other options. Better start put him up on charges and dock his pay.

    Give it up already, you're arguing a point no one advocating.


    We really are our own worst enemy sometimes.
    Yea, I know. Flying off the handle when a brother asks you to kick his bunk for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    You seem to be having a lot of trouble with this concept. No one is saying they deserve to sleep or that they hear the call and say "screw that I've got to get some beauty sleep" and turn over. Some people just aren't good at waking up. The guy had a problem, he thought he found a solution. Turns out his solution isn't fool proof so now he is looking for other options. Better start put him up on charges and dock his pay.

    Give it up already, you're arguing a point no one advocating.




    Yea, I know. Flying off the handle when a brother asks you to kick his bunk for him.
    First of all.....it was you that posted this gem:

    nameless: "I'm sure the other guys on the truck want someone riding with them to the 5am fire that hasn't slept in 20 hours".

    Not sure about where you work, but this is a pretty common scenario in a lot of departments. If it isn't busy where you are, and sleep is expected, I am happy for you. But that just isn't the reality for many on here.

    And secondly...it is you that is throwing around the word "mutt" like it is a god d*mn pronoun, so try taking some of your own advice.

    By the way...isn't it past your bedtime? Or is that just when you are working?

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