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  1. #1
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    Default Training non stop?

    Is any other fairly busy departments that have full loads all day with training, covering other territories that are training, inspections, PR events, change overs, night drills, ISO self study hrs. etc. company training and taking calls all night.
    Wondering if its causing burn out, low morale, apathy, ruining home life because of lack of sleep. It seems to me that all of this training is either cya for the upper echelon, a standard set by NFPA, ISO ratings on and on.
    Ive also noticed there is no more initiative to do and think for yourself example - Your eating that is if youve finaly found the time and talking about if you get assigned the R.I.T. what tools are you going to need how are you going to find the F.F. how are you going to pull that F.F. up the stairs and one of the guys says well this is how another guy says this is how we could do it another guy says well lets go see if we can, he asks the Lt. and he says well we could next shift let me see what training we have, he looks comes back and says we have EMS training in the morning then Ive got to get these inspections done because we havnt had time and Im going to get a nasty letter from HQ if I dont get these done plus I saw we are going to have R.I.T. training in august. Well august is 4 months away!
    Heres another - Indicisive company officers thanks to cook book firefighting, recipes. They pull up on a house fire they cant make a descision how to fight the fire because Vincent Dune says this John Norman says this Ron Coleman says this all from huge departments, well he said this and the other said this. I'd like them to think oh this aint New York City lets put this fire out and do it.

    This whole firefighting thing isnt rocket science, can we? could we? someday just do our jobs again? I think its called "customer service".
    One more thing EMS is cook book and piece of cake.


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    Huh? What point are you trying to get across?

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    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexfd5 View Post
    Huh? What point are you trying to get across?
    I'm wondering the same thing myself...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  4. #4
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    Exclamation rocket science

    I'm not sure what you're getting at, either. It's not "rocket science", but does rely on a body of knowledge and experience that isn't simply "common sense". Similar to many trades; i.e. iron work, electricians, pipe fitters, etc. But a broader knowledge, and critical time frames unlike the building trades. Training is good, but it must be "good training". I don't know about you, but I can't get enough good training. Not the CYA type. There is an attitude out there that we don't need it, because we're just that good all by ourselves.
    Don't beleive it. If the military trains in tactics, skills, operations, etc...with experienced members, what makes you think we don't need it. Respect your profession and learn more about how we do our job.
    Two words sum up the problem for development in the fire service (these describe the cultural malaise) : Over-confidence and self-satisfaction. They cause the decay of a good organisation... I know, 'cuz I've seen it up close.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
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    new addition to forum rules: Please do not rant on your first post.

  6. #6
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    You just said like 6 prepositions...
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Forum Member FDAIC485's Avatar
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    Is that a boat motor that I hear? I wonder what size hook that is.
    I believe them bones are me. Some say we are born into the grave. I feel so alone, gonna end up a big ol' pile a them bones

    -J. Cantrell

  8. #8
    Forum Member paceyourrace's Avatar
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    Lightbulb ???

    I donít think ISO has much to do with training and I donít think NFPA has a standard on how much a department can train.
    If you are wondering if your department trains too much compared to other departments in your area with your size, I understand your question.

    I am on a department on the west coast with 378 Union firefighters and we have station training every forth work day and division training about once a month.
    I think more is accomplished through station training mostly because we seem to jive and we know each other so well. Most division trainings seem unorganized and not much gets accomplished.
    Does this answer your question?

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber dday05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plugugly3 View Post
    Is any other fairly busy departments that have full loads all day with training, covering other territories that are training, inspections, PR events, change overs, night drills, ISO self study hrs. etc. company training and taking calls all night.
    Wondering if its causing burn out, low morale, apathy, ruining home life because of lack of sleep. It seems to me that all of this training is either cya for the upper echelon, a standard set by NFPA, ISO ratings on and on.
    Ive also noticed there is no more initiative to do and think for yourself example - Your eating that is if youve finaly found the time and talking about if you get assigned the R.I.T. what tools are you going to need how are you going to find the F.F. how are you going to pull that F.F. up the stairs and one of the guys says well this is how another guy says this is how we could do it another guy says well lets go see if we can, he asks the Lt. and he says well we could next shift let me see what training we have, he looks comes back and says we have EMS training in the morning then Ive got to get these inspections done because we havnt had time and Im going to get a nasty letter from HQ if I dont get these done plus I saw we are going to have R.I.T. training in august. Well august is 4 months away!
    Heres another - Indicisive company officers thanks to cook book firefighting, recipes. They pull up on a house fire they cant make a descision how to fight the fire because Vincent Dune says this John Norman says this Ron Coleman says this all from huge departments, well he said this and the other said this. I'd like them to think oh this aint New York City lets put this fire out and do it.

    This whole firefighting thing isnt rocket science, can we? could we? someday just do our jobs again? I think its called "customer service".
    One more thing EMS is cook book and piece of cake.
    August is 4 months away??? Sounds like you have some issues and maybe your dept needs to get to some basic ff activities

  10. #10
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    Default There was a couple of you that did help and took the time answer my question and i ap

    I know I was rambling and all over the place.
    Heres what I was trying to get across in a nut shell, we have 8 hrs of training every duty day, even on saturdays and sundays, the days we dont have training we are covering our territory and 2 other engine companies territories. Alot of time we dont eat until 9pm, very little almost none of the training is quality its just filler to put on the books I'm guessing? I was told training is CYA for the department.
    All I know is there is very little downtime there are runs at night and 30 minute reports to go with them, everyone is exhausted and has to go home and sleep, it is without a doubt effecting my family life and my health.

  11. #11
    Forum Member bharer75's Avatar
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    this training only happens in short spurts and you barely work as it is.. All of the "rocket science" also weeds out the surfers who want to be firemen(the people who only got the job for the pay and lack of working) and lets the serious guys in.

    about effecting home life? you can sleep it out a few hours..

  12. #12
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    Default bharer75

    bharer75 You are obviously a volunteer or work as a part time fire fighter by saying "you barely work as it is". You probably do barely work as it is and when you go home to your moms basement she probably lets you sleep for a few.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by plugugly3 View Post
    I know I was rambling and all over the place.
    Heres what I was trying to get across in a nut shell, we have 8 hrs of training every duty day, even on saturdays and sundays, the days we dont have training we are covering our territory and 2 other engine companies territories. Alot of time we dont eat until 9pm, very little almost none of the training is quality its just filler to put on the books I'm guessing? I was told training is CYA for the department.
    All I know is there is very little downtime there are runs at night and 30 minute reports to go with them, everyone is exhausted and has to go home and sleep, it is without a doubt effecting my family life and my health.
    Welcome to a career in emergency response. If you cannot handle it I suggest you find yourself a nice 9 to 5 civilian gig.

    I make my company train everyday. Since it is cold and miserable out most of our training is inside. When the warmer weather hits it'll be time to pull lines and do outside drills. We hit department SOP, BLS protocols and white board scenarios everyday. Add our company business inspections and runs it is a full day.

    But guess what...after 12 years I still enjoy going to "work." Every duty day I still can't believe I get paid to ride the front seat of a BRT with the best fire company in the nation (any company officer that does not think his crew is the best needs some serious help.)

  14. #14
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    And yet another "HERO" with a light bar on his P.O.V. collection of stuffed animals dressed like a firefighter, shrine of firefighter figurines and toys in your living room, that hasnt seen a real fire in 12 months. "BRT"? LMAO
    You boys do have good chicken BBQ's

    If your department doesnt take over 40,000 runs a year, if your company needs to train on how to pull a line? I dont realy care and I have no respect for what you have to say.

    I do miss those days working for a "farm team" department though pulling lines pretending we were at a structure fire it was fun, sometimes like you, we wouldnt even have worn our gear if it wasnt for the training. Oh and shining the engine up for parades. That sure was neat 'O'

    I still cant get over the "BRT" your killin me thats some knee slappin stuff there. Where can I get a navy blue shirt that says "I ride the front seat of a BRT, stay back 200 feet" YEE HAAW!! I would wear it everyday. Now I'm killin myself ROTF LMAO.

    I'm getting the feeling that the only people on here have no real expirience and absolutely do need to train constantly.

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber JohnVBFD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plugugly3 View Post

    If your department doesnt take over 40,000 runs a year, if your company needs to train on how to pull a line? I dont realy care and I have no respect for what you have to say.

    Ironically enough, we all feel the same way about your posts.
    Co 11
    Virginia Beach FD

    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

  16. #16
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    Totals for 2008: 40,080
    EMS Incidents: 31,786 (some "fire" type runs get classified as EMS in our CAD, usually if there is a patient it gets recorded as EMS in our stats.)
    Fire Incidents: 8,294
    Engine Responses: 14,362
    Ladder Responses: 5,888

    "Structure Fires" per NFIRS (those would codes in the 100's): 1,650

    "Building Fire" in NFIRS: 219

    Third busiest engine company making building fires in our department...mine (137/219.)

    Just sit in your recliner and collect your check.

    Looks like troll, smells like troll, posts like troll...must be a troll.

  17. #17
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    Ok lex I have respect now.
    All I know is after 12 years of doing this for a major city and 15 years in the service, there is more and more redundant training longer reports, more runs, more more more and I am exhausted the next day, Im getting on average 3-4 hours of sleep at work.
    Overall - moral is way low, there is no initiative, every thing is scheduled, there are no more water fights, no more pranks, every man is out for himself and no one can or wants to think for themselves.
    Unless you have a probie there is no reason to pull a line for training, if you have doubts your guys cant pull a line? write em up, make a paper trail and get rid of them. That makes about as much sense as wiping your *** before you take a dump, its a waste of time. Or your one of those line officers that wonders why guys jump ship as soon as station bids go out?
    I dont live eat and breathe the fire service. At one time I did, I wore FD shirts everywhere I had EMT stickers on my truck, I worked for 3 fire departments two part time and one full time, lived out of a bag untill my wife said no more, no more pagers no more scanners, I quit my part time gigs and became union president for the department that put rubber on my kids feet, I was a flight-paramedic part time and full time for years until my wife said your kids need you now.
    Now Im down to one simple, simple job and its sapping every ounce of energy out of me.
    There is nothing to this job, why are we making it so technical? Lets take calls save lives and put fires out. If my kids saw there is a fire in the back yard they would have sense enough to get the hose turn it on and squirt the fire, if it didnt go out they would say we needed a bigger hose and more water daddy and I would say "Som Body Plz call the fIre Depatment Pleeeez"
    The best class the best training I have ever ever had was "saving our own" hydraulics and essentials 2, the best class I ever had in EMS was BTLS, ACLS, other than that its OJT.

  18. #18
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    I have to say that I agree with about 99.9% of what plugugly stated here. I also work for a major city dept. In the 12 short years i've been on, the training gets more and more idiotic every minute. For example, next week, my engine co. has a 2 hr. training session on washing ground ladders!!
    This is an easy job. It's the people that have zero experience, kissed the right politician's ***, have thousands of training hrs in a classroom with no street experience, have a "big me little you" syndrome or all of the above that make it hard. I am not against training, just the BS that is titled as "training" just to boost some idiots ego. You want throw your crew's moral down the crapper real quick, this will do it.

  19. #19
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    AHHHHHH! just got a call from an E Board member. The little mouse in my pocket said budget cuts are cutting down to only essential training. I'm getting a good feeling about this, I think my right forearm is gonna get HUGE in the near future.
    Just like my father that fought fire for 33 years said "son its all a circle and comes back to the basics, you fight fire you go home and there's always some idiot that tries to change things, I've lived through many of them boy, then everything goes back to the way it was and has been"
    I used to say going to work was like going to a club house where we all had fun, we were all buddys we teased and tormented each other played jokes farted on the one that was asleep in the recliner called each other every degrading name known to man then laugh, put lassix in the coffee, saran wrap on the toilets, oil in the shampoo, shaving cream in boots, women sneaking in the back door, fire crackers in the bunk room.
    Time to have fun again? hope so, might get my family back, might be so bored we have a water fight at work and stay up all night trying to dry everything in the station out.
    When I come home Ill be tired but laughing about the fun we had.

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    MembersZone Subscriber mtnfireguy's Avatar
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