Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 30 of 30
  1. #21
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5

    Default

    My fault Cubbie for not addressing fire deaths/injuries. We make fire scenes where there is a fire death or injury as well. We make a few fires a year so our policy may be different from a smaller municipality than doesn't see a lot of fires. Our way of doing things isn't the only way, Lord knows. We even like private guys where I'm at (Lt Dan ).


  2. #22
    CFEI / CFII cubbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    220

    Default

    Let me make this suggestion. If your going to have a recall policy for investigations. Keep what you have were they call you when they don't know or believe it could be a set fire. Then add that you should be called to all fires were the dollar value of the loss is in excess of 20 percent of value of the property. Any fire were an injury or death has occurred. Injuires should include those that occur to firefighters while on scene.

    When fire is cried and danger is neigh,
    "God and the firemen" is the people's cry;
    But when 'tis out and all things righted,
    God is forgotten and the firemen slighted.
    ~Author unknown, from The Fireman's Journal, 18 Oct 1879

  3. #23
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3

    Talking

    A few days ago I attempted to post a link and some advice, it apparently was not approved or something, never showed up. It would've proved useful before this latest exchange between Ltdan & George.

    The link was to Phoenix FD's SOP regarding fire investigators & callouts. (You can Google it) If ya can't find it I'll post it. You can learn alot about revamping SOP's on google...

    The advice was something to the effect of getting feedback from all involved concerning what they see as "needs" that need to be addressed. The most important tidbit was reminding you that private guys are on the same side as we are..(we being public sector) unless of course they have been taken over by the dark side.
    I do not know George Wendt personally, only from posting on several of these forums, I would not have shat on his hat while asking for help.

    Private guy or no, there is no topic in this forum that doesn't include a post from him offering help, opinions or high-powered private guy musings....

  4. #24
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cubbie View Post
    Let me make this suggestion. If your going to have a recall policy for investigations. Keep what you have were they call you when they don't know or believe it could be a set fire. Then add that you should be called to all fires were the dollar value of the loss is in excess of 20 percent of value of the property. Any fire were an injury or death has occurred. Injuires should include those that occur to firefighters while on scene.
    Most fire investigators, public and private, are grossly underqualified to estimate losses. The loss must include building, contents and additional expenses. This information is not normally available at the time of the fire. Fire officers make a huge mistake entering this info on NFIRS unless there is a solid basis.

    Dan, you are new to the job and obviously have alot to learn-especially about the private side.

    Here's a suggestion as to when to call back investigators:

    1. Fire involving a fatality or suspected fatality.
    2. Fire involving a public or governmental facility.
    3. Fire involving target occupancies: house of worship, medical facility, ethnic or racial cultural occupancy, multiple dwelling, shopping center, chemical plant, or any other occupancy that may be of concern to your locale.
    4. Obviously incendiary fire or fire where an arrest has been made
    5. Any explosion, regardless of cause
    6. Any recovery of an incendiary or explosive device
    7. Any other fire on a case-by-case basis that may have extraordinary or unusual circumstances.

    Of course, this is coming from an uneducated private guy with 17 years f/t experience as a law enforcement fire investigator and 32 years as a volunteer fire fighter. It's probably worthless.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  5. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Thanks George. That actually gave me some other ideas that I hadn't thought/or weren't suggested before.

  6. #26
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clearfield Co., PA
    Posts
    4

    Default when to call the FM

    Here is part of a document I got last summer from my chief, it was distributed by The Penna State Police Troop "C"

    To all Fire Chiefs, designees and Clearfield County Control:



    Troop C Fire Marshal(s) will respond immediately to the following fires:



    a. Fatal fire
    b. Catastrophic fire
    c. Attempted homicide
    d. Property damage in excess of $1,000,000
    e. Any fire of such an unusual nature that would be expected to generate higher than normal media attention
    f. A fire which resulted in any injury to an emergency responder or serious bodily injury to other persons
    g. Any suspicious fire which is thought to be part of an arson pattern in the area

    In general, fires which do not fall into any of the above listed categories and have an estimated monetary loss of $75,000 or less will not require the immediate response of a Deputy or Assistant Deputy Fire Marshal. Additionally, vehicle fires, shed fires, detached garage fires and seasonal residence/camp fires will normally not require the immediate response of a Deputy or Assistant Deputy Fire Marshal, unless one of the criteria above applies.

    Requests for immediate responses to fires which do not fit into the above categories shall be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. The approving officer shall take the following factors into consideration during the decision making process:

    a. Is the fire suspicious, and if so, based upon what circumstances?

    i. Any signs of forcible entry
    ii. Physical evidence at the scene such as gas cans or tire tracks
    iii. Does the structure have no electrical service or other utilities which could account for an accidental ignition?
    iv. The time of the fire (most arsons occur between midnight and 0500)
    v. Is the owner present and do his/her statements make sense?

    vi. Potential for destruction or contamination of evidence
    vii. Inability to secure the scene
    viii. Potential loss of ability to interview occupants, witnesses, owners, suspects, and first responders
    ix. Potential restriction or denial of access to the scene at a later time
    x. Successful completion of the investigation will be significantly hampered by a delayed response

    b. What is the Fire Chiefís initial opinion of the cause- is it suspicious or does he feel itís probably an accident, but would just like confirmation, in which case an immediate response would not be necessary.

  7. #27
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clearfield Co., PA
    Posts
    4

    Default When to call the FM

    I received this from my chief, it came from Troop "C" Penna State Police.
    To all Fire Chiefs, designees and Clearfield County Control:



    Troop C Fire Marshal(s) will respond immediately to the following fires:



    a. Fatal fire
    b. Catastrophic fire
    c. Attempted homicide
    d. Property damage in excess of $1,000,000
    e. Any fire of such an unusual nature that would be expected to generate higher than normal media attention
    f. A fire which resulted in any injury to an emergency responder or serious bodily injury to other persons
    g. Any suspicious fire which is thought to be part of an arson pattern in the area

    In general, fires which do not fall into any of the above listed categories and have an estimated monetary loss of $75,000 or less will not require the immediate response of a Deputy or Assistant Deputy Fire Marshal. Additionally, vehicle fires, shed fires, detached garage fires and seasonal residence/camp fires will normally not require the immediate response of a Deputy or Assistant Deputy Fire Marshal, unless one of the criteria above applies.

    Requests for immediate responses to fires which do not fit into the above categories shall be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. The approving officer shall take the following factors into consideration during the decision making process:

    a. Is the fire suspicious, and if so, based upon what circumstances?

    i. Any signs of forcible entry
    ii. Physical evidence at the scene such as gas cans or tire tracks
    iii. Does the structure have no electrical service or other utilities which could account for an accidental ignition?
    iv. The time of the fire (most arsons occur between midnight and 0500)
    v. Is the owner present and do his/her statements make sense?

    vi. Potential for destruction or contamination of evidence
    vii. Inability to secure the scene
    viii. Potential loss of ability to interview occupants, witnesses, owners, suspects, and first responders
    ix. Potential restriction or denial of access to the scene at a later time
    x. Successful completion of the investigation will be significantly hampered by a delayed response

    b. What is the Fire Chiefís initial opinion of the cause- is it suspicious or does he feel itís probably an accident, but would just like confirmation, in which case an immediate response would not be necessary.

  8. #28

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    4

    Default George the wonderful

    Wow, George.

    A little arrogant and self impressed? Can you walk on water too?

    Lighten up, man.

  9. #29
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    477

    Default

    I don't know the SOPs of most departments, but I do know that anytime there is a victim with burns of more than 5% BSA, the department is required to notify the state FM. This applies whether or not the department uses its own investigators, and also applies to incidents where the burns were not received in a structure fire.

  10. #30
    CFEI / CFII cubbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    220

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    I don't know the SOPs of most departments, but I do know that anytime there is a victim with burns of more than 5% BSA, the department is required to notify the state FM. This applies whether or not the department uses its own investigators, and also applies to incidents where the burns were not received in a structure fire.
    I have to ask...What national standard, law, or regulation are you quoting. I have never heard of the 5% rule.

    When fire is cried and danger is neigh,
    "God and the firemen" is the people's cry;
    But when 'tis out and all things righted,
    God is forgotten and the firemen slighted.
    ~Author unknown, from The Fireman's Journal, 18 Oct 1879

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Personal Telephone Call Turns Into 911 Call
    By MalahatTwo7 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-22-2008, 11:51 PM
  2. Call the fire department????? No no....call Ghost Busters.
    By stm4710 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-28-2005, 05:52 PM
  3. on call
    By whampus in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-30-2001, 11:51 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts