1. #1
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    Default Home Alert / Pagers

    Greetings, All!

    I'm looking for a copy of anyone's sucessfull narative on upgrading / replacing outdated pagers. We actually still have some low-band home alert pagers in-service that were purchased 30 years ago!

    I have sucessful narratives from 2007 for 48 full sets of PPE and for 2008 for 2500' of 5", rescue manikins, and a new air bag rescue system. Anyone want to swap narratives? (Don't worry. I'll share, even if you don't have what I'm looking for!)

    I'm going to Kurt's seminar next weekend in Bushnell's Basin, but before I get there, I'd like to have something more than the need and demographics started for 2009, so that I can get some specific help with any questions that we might have.

    Speaking of next weekend's seminar.... It's a good thing that my sport is NA$CAR, and that there is still three weeks until Daytona! Who schedules ANYTHING (besides a Superbowl Party) in a fire station on Superbowl Sunday?
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

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    Hmmmm... No responses in a day. Does that mean that no out there has had a sucessfull pager / home alert application that they can share? Alerting more firefighters more efficiently HAS to be a valid pre-curser to better protection of life and property and to increased firefighter safety...

    Maybe buying pagers just isn't as sexy as buying new SCBA, PPE, or LDH...
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

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    I know plenty of people have been successful for pagers. To me it seems like a pretty cut and dry application. You've been a reviewer; you know that peer understands the needs of the fire service. You have antiquated technology and need pagers for FFs to respond. No pager, no one shows up. I know you've been successful so you can surely come up with a good application.

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    Thanks! While I may have been a reviewer, it was only for apparatus! I wasn't sure if pagers was one of those items that traditionally did as well as PPE or SCBA. Just wanted to hear that it's been sucessful in the past with othres, and now that I hear that it has, I'll take it from there.

    Thanks, again, Sly!
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

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    do pages have to be a county wide upgrade or is that mainly for preps

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    Guessing here that they would need to fit within the dispatch system but not necessarily a county-wide project.

    Another question--are pagers considered communications equipment that needs an SAA sign-off at the state level? If so, it would be wise to run it past the state before even doing much leg work.

    earl

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    We used our excess funds this year to expand on our radio grant. We managed to save considerable money when we went out to bid on radios. Not enough to replace all our older pagers but certainly a good start. I know that many have done both radio & pagers as a total solution to communications problems.

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    We did a regional project for pagers last year (neighboring department, not ours). You'd be amazed how cheap you can get them when ordering 150 or so.

    Ours revolved around the fact that we finally got 911 in our county at the first of '08 and no one had pagers to be notifed. A couple of departments replaced old pagers, but probably 90% was for those who had never had pagers other than through the local paging company.

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    Several of the communications dealers that we spoke with when we replaced pagers had deal on trading in the old minitor 2's when upgrading to the minitor 5's. We switched over al of ours because of the narrow band incoming and the old 2's were not capable in handling the 1/2 freq. The two's were tough as nails, gonna be hard to beat them, but time will tell.

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    Default You reviewed apparatus?

    Soooo Rich-

    If I send you last year's (computer denied) tanker narrative application, might you give me some insight on how / where I might tweak it? I don't have a narrative for pagers (although rumor is Columbia is going high band in the next few years, and I'd like to do a regional for replacing mobiles & portables (just have to find a company willing to sponsor the regional) pagers are not a bad idea though...) Not going to be at the seminar

    I, too have PPE, SCBA, and station modifications (exhaust extraction, alarm system & generator) narratives I'm willing to share... This coming year is another try at a tanker and hose (attack, backup & ldh) replacements (any help out there?...)

    Ben

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    Default Regional ldh

    Hey Medic!
    I was thinking about a regional LDH for 2009 (yeah the both of us). Think just two or three dept's have a chance?

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    Apparently it would be a small region... Sure we couldn't talk some others into it? Could even be a couple departments away from us...

    We'd have to get 3,000 feet (plus some shorts, and change our pump fittings) and I'd really have to formulate a plan to get rid of the 4" (the Commissioners would KILL me if we didn't get rid of it,!)

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    Two or three departments would be better than one, demonstrating interagency cooperation and interoperability. This late, with the need to do MOU's and get everybody on the same page, i'd not go any farther than i could manage and work with easily.

    Just my 2 cents.

    earl

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    Hey DFDCAR1,

    I recieved 2 dj,s on the only 2 applications I ever wrote so I can't help you out with your pagers. One that I wrote was for full turn out sets so I would be interested to look your's over if you don't mind. I am traveling from the Fort Plain area this weekend to attend my first seminar and look forward to meeting you and everyone else. see you there.

    RJ

    there is nothing better than cars traveling 200 mph in Daytona, the heck with the superbowl, the count down is on for the Daytona 500!!

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    RJ - Your PM option isn't turned on, so PM me with an email address that I can contact you at.

    18 days, 6 hours, 41 minutes until GREEN FLAG!

    DFDCar1
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

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    Quote Originally Posted by medic190 View Post
    If I send you last year's (computer denied) tanker narrative application, might you give me some insight on how / where I might tweak it?
    Sure, Ben, send it over. you still have an email address for me, correct? If it was a computer DJ, then it may not have GOTTEN to Peer review, or it may be a problem in the app portions other than the narrative. Computer DJ's aren't generated based upon the narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by medic190 View Post
    I don't have a narrative for pagers (although rumor is Columbia is going high band in the next few years, and I'd like to do a regional for replacing mobiles & portables (just have to find a company willing to sponsor the regional) pagers are not a bad idea though...)
    Not waiting for SWWIN (or swindle)?


    Quote Originally Posted by medic190 View Post
    This coming year is another try at a tanker and hose (attack, backup & ldh) replacements (any help out there?...)
    Our sucessful 2008 grant was for LDH (2,500' of 5"), Rescue Randy & Jennifer, and for a 6-bag Air Bag Rescue System. I'll share.... let me see if I can find your email address....
    Last edited by DFDCar1; 01-28-2009 at 07:29 AM.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

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    BTW
    DFDCar1 will you be at the race?

    18 days, 4 hours, 46 mins to the main event

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    No, I attend a Conference in NYC every year on President's Day Weekend (for my OTHER P/T job). There's a great firefighter's bar on W79th, called Blondies, and I've watched the Daytona race from there for the last 4 or 5 years!
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

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    Ok I will be there during my annual pilgrimage

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    OK - Now time for a TECHNICAL question on pagers as an AFG Grant Item:

    I'm working, for now, based on the 2008 guidance, where I found a statement in the first paragraph of Appendix 1 which states "Equipment requested under AFG must meet all mandatory regulatory requirements, as well as any national and/or DHS-adopted standards in order to be eligible for purchase with grant funds."

    In researching my pager possibilities, I found that there are pagers that are APCO "P-25" compliant; but none of which are low-band. Our County operates an extensive low-band paging system, and for me to meet the "interoperability" requirement, our new and replacement pagers would also have to be part of this low-band system.

    Has the P-25 issue been previously discussed as it applies to paging systems? Which would take precidence - the P25 or the interoperability?

    Am I raising a concern out of something that isn't an issue?
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post
    OK - Now time for a TECHNICAL question on pagers as an AFG Grant Item:

    I'm working, for now, based on the 2008 guidance, where I found a statement in the first paragraph of Appendix 1 which states "Equipment requested under AFG must meet all mandatory regulatory requirements, as well as any national and/or DHS-adopted standards in order to be eligible for purchase with grant funds."

    In researching my pager possibilities, I found that there are pagers that are APCO "P-25" compliant; but none of which are low-band. Our County operates an extensive low-band paging system, and for me to meet the "interoperability" requirement, our new and replacement pagers would also have to be part of this low-band system.

    Has the P-25 issue been previously discussed as it applies to paging systems? Which would take precidence - the P25 or the interoperability?

    Am I raising a concern out of something that isn't an issue?
    There are no requirements for P-25 radio equipment from FEMA but your communications equipment has to be in-line with your State's interoperability plan. You can check with your States' point of contact to make sure. There are a lot of discussions relating to this topic (not specific to pagers).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post
    OK - Now time for a TECHNICAL question on pagers as an AFG Grant Item:

    In researching my pager possibilities, I found that there are pagers that are APCO "P-25" compliant; but none of which are low-band. Our County operates an extensive low-band paging system, and for me to meet the "interoperability" requirement, our new and replacement pagers would also have to be part of this low-band system.
    I am not aware of ANY P25 pagers, I would love to see some - what did
    you find?

    There is a bunch of head scratching right now at FEMA and at a couple of state levels about pagers. They are not an interoperability device - so the prevailng opinion is they will not be treated as a two way radio would be treated, ie, P25 or even state plan requirements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    I am not aware of ANY P25 pagers, I would love to see some - what did you find?

    There is a bunch of head scratching right now at FEMA and at a couple of state levels about pagers. They are not an interoperability device - so the prevailng opinion is they will not be treated as a two way radio would be treated, ie, P25 or even state plan requirements.
    I'm not a radio technoid, but ours told me that there were some high-end, hi-band P25 pagers available. I don't know, it's all FM (freekin' magic) to me!

    We have a "degree" of interoperability built into our paging system in that while the County provides primary dispatch for almost all 42, many of the departments that operate a base station have tone encoder capability for activating everyone else's pagers in the event that the County system is down. Trouble is, that it's all low-band... 1940's technology...
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

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    Up to this point pagers are the only comm device I will put in a grant that does not seem to trigger the 4th State review and they are routinely funded in all configurations.
    Kurt Bradley
    Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
    " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    So what happens when you are the only career department in the area and all the volunteers around you already did a regional project and we were not part of it. Can we still do a commo grant since regional isn't an option for us? Is it P-25 that says that you have to be digitial instead of analog? Anyone have any experience with digital and how well it works?

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