If that is military behavior...I'm glad I'm not in the military.
Thank God the Secret Service is so wonderful.
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Thread: We are not the military...
01-30-2009, 10:10 AM #21"This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?
01-30-2009, 12:07 PM #22
Additionally, if a nod and a very slight wave is a national security risk, they should have further instructed the drum major to keep his hands by his sides at all times, not swinging back and forth to the beat of the march where it could be construed as some kind of threat to the President.
If what this man did was out of line and "risked his own life", they should have canceled the F'ing parade and all future public appearances of the President.
I agree with Chief Harve's first post.Robert Kramer
Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.
"Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.
Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.
01-30-2009, 02:24 PM #23
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- Memphis Tn,USA-now
If the fire service is not loosely based on the military in regards to rank structure and discipline,why bother with rank?
On my old vollie department we could get away with telling the Chief or Captain that"Rich,I got the jaws pump going now." or "Willie,where you want the U-truck parked for lights?" but I always thought paid departments were different unless the officer wanted his guys to front name him with something other than his rank.
Back to the original topic,UNLESS the guy was in the lead and was supposed to be the one rendering honors to the new President,he wasn't supposed to wave,nod or even blink in "tap code" but maintain his position and stay in step and tune.
It wouldn't look good for a tuba player to belch any sour notes while passing the reviewing stand.
01-30-2009, 08:49 PM #24
Besides, there's no way the secret service was going to shoot every person along the parade route that waved at the president -- and there were thousands of those. So I'm guessing they weren't going to take out a drum major for his half wave / half salute / wink gesture. Especially since the people in the parade were probably screened better than the people along the route.
So, forgive me, but as strange as the Secret Service might be, I'm not buying the idea that he "put his life in danger."
02-02-2009, 08:53 AM #25
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
- Loco madidus effercio in rutilus effercio.
Personally, I also agree that the whole fiasco is exactly that, a fiasco. It takes a lot of experienced parade discipline to NOT wave and smile/nod at people who have lined up to watch You march past. For most of us, that is not really a problem. Even I am guilty of small waves to the smaller kids, especially if they know me and actually see/recognize me.
When the "Boss" waves at you, its usually an automatic response to acknowledge the, for lack of better words, "salute".
Privately, I think (again from a certain amount of experience) that the Secret Service are just a bit too full of themselves. Like Cosmosis said, if they were so uptight about the whole Do Not Wave thing, then there should be several 1000s of folks in detention pending investigation by the SS.
02-02-2009, 11:01 AM #26
Should have followed the rules of the parade and his unit.
This isn't about a fire department, this is more about being a part of a band. Never having been in band, it seems that there is a high level of structure and discipline (all that marching in step kind of thing). He let his band-mates down.
If he wanted to wave to the president, he could have joined the other million people watching it.I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.
"The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."
"When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."
02-02-2009, 01:56 PM #27
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
Tripods are a big no-no around the White House, which makes sense... If someone is going to disguise a weapon as a camera, they want you to at least have an unsteady aim.[/QUO
Never thought of that. Thats very interesting.
I do not know how to feel about this either,
I filled in for flag duty once or twice in the Army and know the hell you would pay for pulling a stunt like that in formation. However love him or hate him he is the Commander in Chief. If he acknowledges you invidually it could be taken as a sign of disrespect not to reciprocate. Maybe salute rather than wave? I agree though I think there was something behind the scenes nobody is being told bad blood that may have been festering or something to cause the suspension.
02-02-2009, 02:19 PM #28
were all para-militaristic government workers. but were not the military..right?
02-04-2009, 02:15 PM #29
It is a fact that parade participants were instructed by the USSS to not make any gestures toward the reviewing stand while marching by. A few groups did have performances in front of the viewing stand so obviously there were exceptions.
John Coleman was suspended from the band, and then resigned. He did not lose his paying job. I feel sorry for him to a point, but he also did not follow the rules that his organization operates under.
02-04-2009, 05:08 PM #30
Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
- Join Date
- Jul 2001
- Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
"I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
— C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"
02-04-2009, 06:41 PM #31
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
- Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
One time at Band Camp ....I was suspended for waving at a Chipmunk.
02-09-2009, 10:12 AM #32
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