Age Discrimination Ruled Unacceptable.....

[hwoods]

Just noticed an item in the FH News section that stated that the State of Pennsylvania has ruled that Philadelphia's action in throwing out Fire Dept. Job Applications from people who were over 40 constitutes Age Discrimination and is illegal. Since that ruling came from the State Human Relations Commission, it is binding on the entire State. Now, if we can get 49 more States to do that............

[Eng34FF]

I agree Harve. Although there is something to be said about youth in the fire service, there is also room for "experienced" people who bring maturity and other outside (not necessarily fire service) experience to the job.

[ScareCrow57]

"Job qualifications -- even when they include physical agility -- are not strictly tied to a person's age," Glassman said. "Employers must remember that every qualified job applicant has the right to an equal opportunity to compete for a position. Being over a certain age simply cannot be a reason to eliminate an otherwise qualified job applicant. It's the law."

How long before someone makes the same claim for the minimum age?

[HeavyRescueTech]

How long before someone makes the same claim for the minimum age?

dammit, you beat me to it.

but of course i'm sure people will say that it's ok to discriminate against someone for being too young, but not too old.

[hwoods]

Educational Requirements aren't Discriminatory (at least not yet), so by the time you get the H.S Diploma and go thru everything else, you're 18 anyway.......... And before anyone points out the kid who graduated from High School at age 10, He's too bright for this kind of work........

[Mzanghetti]

Educational Requirements aren't Discriminatory (at least not yet), so by the time you get the H.S Diploma and go thru everything else, you're 18 anyway.......... And before anyone points out the kid who graduated from High School at age 10, He's too bright for this kind of work........

ROTFLMAO!!!

[ScareCrow57]

Educational Requirements aren't Discriminatory (at least not yet), so by the time you get the H.S Diploma and go thru everything else, you're 18 anyway.......... And before anyone points out the kid who graduated from High School at age 10, He's too bright for this kind of work........

You make the assumption everyone has educational requirements. I have seen many a high school grad at 17.

[FWDbuff]

Didn't Mass toss out the max age thing a long time ago?? ..

[A SHIFT FF]

Most every large career fire department in Indiana is in a retirement program known as PERF (public employee's retirement fund). As for the area of "PERF" that the fire department's are in, the age requirements are no younger than 21 and no older than 36 at date of appointment. From what I understand, this has been challenged many times and still upheld.

[doughesson]

Now if someone will rule that broken legs don't necessarily preclude one from running later after healing,I'll be in like Flynn.Gimme a raincheck on that running test there,Chief.

[hwoods]

Now if someone will rule that broken legs don't necessarily preclude one from running later after healing,I'll be in like Flynn.Gimme a raincheck on that running test there,Chief.

You don't have to Run..... If you're nominated, Decline.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Didn't Mass toss out the max age thing a long time ago?? ..

Randy.. it's a local option for Civil Service communitites. Our max hiring age recently reverted to 32 years old.


There was a case in Cambridge, whch does not have the age limit. The candiate, a CFD fire alarm operator in his late 50's took the firefighter entrance exam, passed and was hired by the City of Cambridge. He went through the Massachusetts Firefighting Academy Recruit program twice.. both times he got injured and had to leave the class.

I beleive he returned to his previuos position in Fire Alarm.

[MalahatTwo7]

Randy.. it's a local option for Civil Service communitites. Our max hiring age recently reverted to 32 years old.


There was a case in Cambridge, whch does not have the age limit. The candiate, a CFD fire alarm operator in his late 50's took the firefighter entrance exam, passed and was hired by the City of Cambridge. He went through the Massachusetts Firefighting Academy Recruit program twice.. both times he got injured and had to leave the class.

I beleive he returned to his previuos position in Fire Alarm.

Not trying (or willing ) to beat a dead horse here Cap, but I've known a few 20-somethings that "keep injuring themselves" and being re-coursed. How many times is "too many"? See it all the time in the army, and a heard it happen a few times when I was at FX Co Fire Academy too. Stories like that are everywhere, I would expect.

[CaptOldTimer]

You make the assumption everyone has educational requirements. I have seen many a high school grad at 17.

So what is your point?



I graduated at 17 years of age and went in the Army 3 weeks later, did my 3 year hitch and 3 in the reserves and got my head on right and when I was 22joined a local fire org and got a paid job at 24. During my time on the job I attended college and got my Bachelors in Public Administration and Associates in Fire Science. Not including a Fire Officer 3, Fire Instructors 4 certification and a Certified Emergency Management degree and others I could list....



Most states have regulations in place so children under 18 cannot ride or be part of a fire crew working in a hostile area. I’ve taught classes within my state to ages from 15, juniors, to members over 60 and the older members grasp better than the young ones.


With all that I can go to Starbucks with degrees and certifications in hand a get a 20 ounce cup of coffee for what, 5 bucks??

[hwoods]

With all that I can go to Starbucks with degrees and certifications in hand a get a 20 ounce cup of coffee for what, 5 bucks??

YOU can go to Yuppiebucks for Coffee. Your fine City has some really great Coffee Houses, they're called 7-11s. I hit a 7-11 for Coffee a couple of times a week on average, and never had a bad one yet. They have plenty of stuff to put in it, if you wish, but it's GOOD Coffee to start with. And at about 35% of Yuppiebucks Prices. Us Retirees gotta watch the pennies........

[malana1]

dammit, you beat me to it.

but of course i'm sure people will say that it's ok to discriminate against someone for being too young, but not too old.

Where I come from from you must be 21. I assumed this was the norm for career depts at least.

[ScareCrow57]

So what is your point?

I graduated at 17 years of age and went in the Army 3 weeks later, did my 3 year hitch and 3 in the reserves and got my head on right and when I was 22joined a local fire org and got a paid job at 24. During my time on the job I attended college and got my Bachelors in Public Administration and Associates in Fire Science. Not including a Fire Officer 3, Fire Instructors 4 certification and a Certified Emergency Management degree and others I could list....

Most states have regulations in place so children under 18 cannot ride or be part of a fire crew working in a hostile area. I’ve taught classes within my state to ages from 15, juniors, to members over 60 and the older members grasp better than the young ones.

With all that I can go to Starbucks with degrees and certifications in hand a get a 20 ounce cup of coffee for what, 5 bucks??

From the article

"Job qualifications -- even when they include physical agility -- are not strictly tied to a person's age," Glassman said. "Employers must remember that every qualified job applicant has the right to an equal opportunity to compete for a position. Being over a certain age simply cannot be a reason to eliminate an otherwise qualified job applicant. It's the law."

Basically, this ruling would invalidate those laws. Just as being over a certain age cannot be a disqualifying factor, neither can being under a certain age. You yourself were able to join the military, a far more dangerous occupation than fire fighting, at the age of 17. So why not allow a properly qualified 17 year old to join a fire department?

[Mzanghetti]

From the article

Basically, this ruling would invalidate those laws. Just as being over a certain age cannot be a disqualifying factor, neither can being under a certain age. You yourself were able to join the military, a far more dangerous occupation than fire fighting, at the age of 17. So why not allow a properly qualified 17 year old to join a fire department?

Nothing! Except that person has not reached the age of majority and connot enter into a contract and it would require his or her parents approval/permission. That is the difference.

[hwoods]

Where I come from from you must be 21. I assumed this was the norm for career depts at least.

In this part of Planet Earth it is common to hire at 18............


Many Volunteer Departments have a Type of Membership for the 16 to 18 age group. In our area, Parental Permission is required, in Writing, and those young folks are restricted as to what activities they can engage in. Interior Structural Firefighting is NOT one of them.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Randy.. it's a local option for Civil Service communitites. Our max hiring age recently reverted to 32 years old.


There was a case in Cambridge, whch does not have the age limit. The candiate, a CFD fire alarm operator in his late 50's took the firefighter entrance exam, passed and was hired by the City of Cambridge. He went through the Massachusetts Firefighting Academy Recruit program twice.. both times he got injured and had to leave the class.

I beleive he returned to his previuos position in Fire Alarm.

There are alot of 40 somethings out there who are in very good physical condition. After all, they didn't spend their formative years parked in front of the X-Box.

I have spoken to a couple of fire chiefs who would hire the motivated 40 yoa any day over a 20 something spoiled brat who expects to be top dog from day one and has a typical 20 something attitude (I have 21 yoa twins. I know from whence I speak).