Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Penny Lane
    Posts
    390

    Default Reverse Field Flag

    I'm sure that this topic has been covered on there before, but my searches yielded no results.

    The flag code states:

    No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.
    Most explanations of this go on to note that the Military uses the "reverse field flag" (union to the right) on the right sleeves of their combat uniforms to show that the soldier is moving forward into battle, but it is not part of the actual flag code. Furthermore, flags on airplanes and other vehicles use a "right flag" or "reverse flag" on their right side, since the vehicle - and therefore the flag - may be in motion.

    My impression has always been that our uniforms should still use a standard flag patch on our right sleeve (if a flag is used), and the reverse field flag is only appropriate for the military. However, I have heard it argued that we should use the reverse flag on our work uniforms.

    What is your department's standard, or your personal interpretation of this issue?


  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lakeland, FL
    Posts
    141

    Default

    my current dept doesn't have a flag. my previous one used the reverse field flag.

  3. #3
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,283

    Default

    I've always been told that the "stars should always lead the soldier into battle," so the reverse would be appropriate. Neither of my departments wear a flag, so it's a moot point for us.
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  4. #4
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,522

    Default

    For a very brief period, Memphis has reverse flags on the right sleeve. It looked so odd that the obvious answer was just to move the flag to the left sleeve and the department patch to the right so that the flag remains true to the stars to the front and also just "looks right."

    It remains that way today except where companies have an individual patch and can wear it in lieu of the flag if desired.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    As a volunteer department, we only wear our dress uniforms on special occasions. However, our uniform shirts do have the reversed flag on the right shoulder (my own decision). I can understand the "moving forward into battle" interpretation, but I've also heard it interpreted as the blue field should be nearest to the heart.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    SW MO
    Posts
    4,249

    Default

    Our flags are on the left sleeve. I've always heard it as the wearer's midline is considered the "pole" when a flag is worn on the uniform and that the reverse field on the right is the appropriate way of wearing the flag. Much like the midline of a plane or vehicle would be the "pole" and the reverse field is appropriate in those cases, as well.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Windsor, MA
    Posts
    237

    Default

    The flag code does not specifically mention the proper position of a flag patch, but the passage below covers it.

    §175. Position and manner of display

    (i) When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag's own right, that is, to the observer's left.


    In this case, the "wall" is the wearer. For anyone who disagrees with this, the statement applies because when displayed on a uniform or hanging against a wall, the flag is visible from one side only, regardless of the position of the viewer. It is the angles and sides from which the flag can be viewed that dictates how it is displayed. Therefore reverse flag patches are not properly displaying the flag. The "stars foreward" and "person being the pole" ideas are not mentioned in the flag code, so they are not official policy, and sound to me like rationalizations.

    The normal flag patch can be worn on either shoulder according to the flag code, but if you would like to maintain the "stars forward" look, just put it on your left shoulder.

  8. #8
    Early Adopter cozmosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,925

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KB1OEV View Post
    Therefore reverse flag patches are not properly displaying the flag.
    I can appreciate the point you're making here... but why don't you ring the Pentagon and tell 'em they've goofed.

  9. #9
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,520

    Default

    As long as the said flag is properly maintained and not permantly stained and worn on the uniform and complies with the rules, I love it.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 02-02-2009 at 02:29 PM.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    27

    Default Reverse Flag

    I'll follow the Military lead on this one and go with their example for the reverse style, but as far as FD's, I understand the left shoulder, right shoulder protocol as follows.

    Left Shoulder = nearest the heart, this is your department patch location and flag is located on the right shoulder.

    Left Shoulder = nearest to the heart, if Company Patch is worn with department patch on right ( FDNY style) no flag displayed

    Left shoulder = No department patch, flag displayed on left shoulder.

  11. #11
    Forum Member BKDRAFT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Bay Area, California
    Posts
    1,146

    Default

    Union to the front always.

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Windsor, MA
    Posts
    237

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cozmosis View Post
    I can appreciate the point you're making here... but why don't you ring the Pentagon and tell 'em they've goofed.
    I'm just working off what is written in the flag code. The govt will do what they want as they always do. Of course the people in charge of maintaining the flag code are probably fairly insignifigant compared to the other operations going on in DC.

    I don't go around telling people they are wearing the flag improperly, but the question was asked so I tried to work through it as methodically and thoroughly as possible, using the correct source.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    635

    Default

    We too have a reverse field (worn on the right sleeve). However I have heard this was so the field could be closer to the heart of the person wearing it.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber wischief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Northern Wisconsin
    Posts
    183

    Default

    You can compare this to a flag flying in the breeze on a flagpole. If you look at one side the union is on the left. If you walk around to the other side the union is now on the right. In this case (I would think) the person wearing the flag on a sleeve is the flagpole.

  15. #15
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,784

    Default

    ......................
    Last edited by jasper45; 02-05-2009 at 06:09 AM. Reason: sanity of the forum!!

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber ffbam24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,482

    Default

    When displayed/worn, the field of blue is always forward.
    Plain and simple.

    Right side of a vehicle/aircraft/arm the flag will appear backwards.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Penny Lane
    Posts
    390

    Default

    Thanks for the interesting perspectives.

    I agree with the logic behind the way the military wears their flags (not that I would argue with them anyway!).

    So I guess I am looking to break it down between one of these three answers:

    1. It is only appropriate for the military to wear the reverse field flag, because they are the only true case of "stars leading the soldier into battle".

    OR

    2. It is also appropriate for firefighters (and LEOs) to wear the reverse field flag, because the "stars should lead the soldier into battle", in this case with the soldier being the firefighter, and the battle being the fire/incident. (or is this presumptuous of us, and disrespectful to combat soldiers?)

    OR

    3. It is appropriate for any person wearing a flag on their right sleeve to have the reverse field flag, because (as ffbam states) "When displayed/worn, the field of blue is always forward. Plain and simple." In this case, the reverse field flag would actually be less of the "stars leading the soldier into battle", but more with the stars leading any moving object, because the flag is blowing behind them.


    I'm not trying to nit pick here, but I just want to make sure that both the flag and the military are respected properly, if we're going to wear the flag at all.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    SW MO
    Posts
    4,249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzfireSolo View Post
    Thanks for the interesting perspectives.

    I agree with the logic behind the way the military wears their flags (not that I would argue with them anyway!).

    So I guess I am looking to break it down between one of these three answers:

    1. It is only appropriate for the military to wear the reverse field flag, because they are the only true case of "stars leading the soldier into battle".

    OR

    2. It is also appropriate for firefighters (and LEOs) to wear the reverse field flag, because the "stars should lead the soldier into battle", in this case with the soldier being the firefighter, and the battle being the fire/incident. (or is this presumptuous of us, and disrespectful to combat soldiers?)

    OR

    3. It is appropriate for any person wearing a flag on their right sleeve to have the reverse field flag, because (as ffbam states) "When displayed/worn, the field of blue is always forward. Plain and simple." In this case, the reverse field flag would actually be less of the "stars leading the soldier into battle", but more with the stars leading any moving object, because the flag is blowing behind them.


    I'm not trying to nit pick here, but I just want to make sure that both the flag and the military are respected properly, if we're going to wear the flag at all.
    If it were my guys and we were putting the flag on the right shoulder, it would be with the reverse field flag. We are uniformed personnel, like military personnel, and I think we should conform to those standards. Just my opinion.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Nation's Capital
    Posts
    187

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cozmosis View Post
    I can appreciate the point you're making here... but why don't you ring the Pentagon and tell 'em they've goofed.
    Quote Originally Posted by KB1OEV View Post
    I'm just working off what is written in the flag code. The govt will do what they want as they always do. Of course the people in charge of maintaining the flag code are probably fairly insignifigant compared to the other operations going on in DC.
    Keep in mind the Pentagon isn't even in DC...

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,802

    Default

    flag code never really states how to display the flag on a person. I find it hard to believe people and walls are the same.


    Field of blue to the front seems to be a good common principle in display of the flag. But let it be noted I like the way the reversed field flag looks.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Reverse Auctions
    By LFD2203 in forum Emergency Services Administration
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-03-2008, 04:40 PM
  2. reverse lay
    By lilyogi in forum Illinois
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-16-2006, 10:13 PM
  3. Reverse 911
    By sfdtim11 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-22-2006, 06:17 AM
  4. Anyone out there using reverse evaluations?
    By kayakking in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-28-2004, 05:18 PM
  5. Reverse 911 System
    By captstanm1 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 06-27-2002, 02:31 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts