1. #26
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    If I have some time today, I'll do some research about the number of people killed out west in wildfires.

    And I expect you to be able to give a me the number of folks killed in abandoned or vacant structure fires. Not including those who were already dead before the fire started, of course.

    I would bet the number is going to be a whole lot lower than you think.

    I do put value on life. primarily our lives. 1%, IMO, is not enough to justify the risk to our members in buildings of unknown condition and stability. We can't save everyone, and if they choose to act in a risky manner, such as hanging out in a vacant structure or try to burn them down, I don't feel an overwhelming responsibility to try to save them if the risk to OUR members is that substantial.

    We are number 1. Always.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I do put value on life. primarily our lives. 1%, IMO, is not enough to justify the risk to our members in buildings of unknown condition and stability. We can't save everyone, and if they choose to act in a risky manner, such as hanging out in a vacant structure or try to burn them down, I don't feel an overwhelming responsibility to try to save them if the risk to OUR members is that substantial.

    We are number 1. Always.

    That is what most on here have a problem with.

    You don't feel an "overwhelming responsibility" to anyone other than yourself on most matters.

    The fire service is simply not the place to practice that mentality. Regardless of what state you are in.

    Now not only do you make judgements on who is worth searching for based on whether or not they have smoke detectors, you now also make judgements on who is worth searching for based on someone's "risky behavior"?

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    LA....how many times have you come into threads concerning urban environments and spewed your BS? THAT is the issue here. You give these brothers the benefit of the doubt (as everyone else did)...yet you seem to assume that you know whats going on in OUR urban environments enough to make comments before the f*cking bodies are cold. Heres an idea. Stay out of any threads concerning any large metropolitan FD, until the actual facts come out, or you can bite your hypocritical toungue enough to only allow get well wishes.

    BTW. nice comment about widows and children. Mutt.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  4. #29
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    Australia -

    14 confirmed dead. Toll may be as high as 40. In just one day, from brush fires.

    Sorry I didn't have a chance to look up the numbers for the US in the past few years as i was busy at work dealing with ..... brush fires. But maybe yesterday's activity down under may suffice to prove my point.

    Brush fires are a threat to life.

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    Prayers for a speedy recovery.

    Just wondering how many depts. attack the head of a grass fire that has 20-30' flames from the unburned side? Not bashing these folks just wondering if they need to look at how they fight wildland fires in the future.
    Fight fire aggrressively having provided for Safety first.

  6. #31
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    High intensity brush fire operations are as risky as structure fire operations, and the risk needs to be measured just as carefully.

    Under these types of conditions, offensive operations should only be used to save lives.

    Property is simply not worth the risk.
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    And if you spent any time in the urban enviornment, you would understand that the term "vacant" or "abandoned" has very little accuracy.

    In this country, what is the percentage of grass fires that result in civilian fatalities?

    I would be certain that it is significantly lower than the percentage of allegedly vacant building fires that result in civilian fatalities.

    Despite what the sheriff tells you.....
    jakesdad
    As far as deaths from wildland fires go, there have been quite a number over the years especially in California. I'm not sure if the fire in Oklahoma was just a grass or prairie fire or wildland although from being there, I would suspect the latter. Right now in Australia, the death toll is well over 100 in Victoria and Queensland states from the worst fire there in recent memory. I have really no idea of any comparison between "occupied" vacant structures and wildland fires but the latter can be extremely devastating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    jakesdad
    As far as deaths from wildland fires go, there have been quite a number over the years especially in California. I'm not sure if the fire in Oklahoma was just a grass or prairie fire or wildland although from being there, I would suspect the latter. Right now in Australia, the death toll is well over 100 in Victoria and Queensland states from the worst fire there in recent memory. I have really no idea of any comparison between "occupied" vacant structures and wildland fires but the latter can be extremely devastating.
    I have never argued that civilians haven't been killed in these types of fires.

    I questioned the percentage of "grass fires" that result in civilian deaths in this country.

    That number is minimal at best.

  9. #34
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    And I would submit the number of times people have been killed in vacant fires when compared to the total number of structure fires in this country is also minimal.

    I would submit in rural areas, such as ours, the percentage is even less.

    Until we have data, we really can't make a valid comparison.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    I have never argued that civilians haven't been killed in these types of fires.

    I questioned the percentage of "grass fires" that result in civilian deaths in this country.

    That number is minimal at best.
    It may be semantics here, 2000 acres is in excess of 3 sq miles, this "grass fire" may have encompassed areas with a lot of different growths, Oklahoma can be similar to Victoria area north of Queensland, as far as flora goes. Unless you've been in or close to a big wildfire or grass fire, it might be hard to imagine the speed and damage they can do. A lot of the deaths are the result of loss of oxygen due to the fire sucking it right out of the atmosphere. Some of the people from California can give you more in depth information on this. As is demonstrated in Australia, over 200 dead and more expected. My back to back is from there but his land is far enough away to not be hit yet.

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