Smart Move

[CALFFBOU]

And where did all these chiefs with little to no experience and a decidedly obvious inability to maintain disipline among all their respective departments get many of their ideas of organization and coordination on the fireground that went into Firescope?

It is something you wouldn't want to admit but many chiefs from your depts out there have been comming to my little burb up here for decades before either of us got on our respective jobs. I'm not going to hijack this anymore that what has already been accomplished...but the reality is much of what you think originated out there...in fact started with actual procedures and policies that came about based on actual needs found in the field and on the fireground....not in the minds of some inexperienced fire chiefs who didn't even bother to properly prepare their men for battle. (lets say against toluene)

If you are going to take a shot at everyone east of Texas at least have your facts correct.

FTM-PTB

PS-Traditionally we mark our vacants and dangerous occupanices with an "X". Have been doing so for decades...so I guess it isn't so progressive is it?

Hey pal, just answering to post #2. More over did I back it up with more that just words.

And to answer your question- Firescope was never based on our Chiefs coming to your burb. It started in the early 1960s after the Bel Air Fire in LA County. Most of FireSCOPE was based on the military, (groups, divisions, etc) not your neck of the woods. Those are the facts.

As for taking shots, I didnt take the first, but am pretty confident my information is valid.

[CALFFBOU]

So, basically... all someone has to do is type the word, "progressive" and you'll reply and make it an issue in any thread.

The whole "who is more progressive" debate is pretty immature and extremely subjective.

Ummm....no. Dr. Phil now says- "Lets get real". I just responded to what was said in post #2. Thats why we have these forums.

[FFFRED]

Hey pal, your buddy called me out and I responded. More over did I back it up with more that just words.

And to answer your question- Firescope was never based on our Chiefs coming to your burb. It started in the early 1960s after the Bel Air Fire in LA County. Most of FireSCOPE was based on the military, not your neck of the woods. Those are the facts.

As for taking shots, I didnt take the first, but am pretty confident my information is valid.

Believe what you want...pal. We've been through this before...I see them and speak to them as they often spend some time observing with my Battalion when in town. They are from all over your neck of the woods and there is plenty of research that can be found in old fire engineerings and WNYF's. They've been comming here for quite some time. You'd be very surprised at the genesis of many procedures and accepted practices out there. We've even had long standing relationships with the military and much of our procedures came from men with Military backgrounds.

There is very little original thought out there...most are modifications or outright duplications of concepts that are most often driven by expereinces and necessity. Your USAR X is a modification off other ideas....I won't say where....

I imagine there are some industrial engineers somewhere who were buffs who did a paper or two on this subject...any one out there?

And we do the same...it isn't something to be embarased about...we sent firemen to London during the Blitz to learn what we could from them while the Krauts were laying waste to GB.

FTM-PTB

[CALFFBOU]

Bro- I believe you when you say you get a lot of visitors from here asking about how to do this and that.

But USAR and building markings started here, from what I know. And NIMS is based on FireSCOPE and FS was based on the military.

Tell your yarns, but not everything fire service is based on XXNY. Some people have developed other tactics, strategies and ways from other sources.

Side note- Dont you NY guys ever think that not everyone worships you? I mean damn, we had some FDNY guys come into my firehouse once to visit right after 9/11 and....lets just say I would not act that way when a guest in someone's house.

If you could just site some of your sources, I would love to see them.

Bou

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

How awesome is this. I, the arsonist, want to burn down a house. All I have to do now is put some tape on it first.

Specially since it was so publicly advertised.

25 years of personal experience allows me to state emphatically that an arsonist doesn't need to rely on any marking to know an easy mark. My bet is that none of the buildings in Coatesville had such a marking.

Point two; marking the building and then taking no steps to secure it is a fire fighter safety program, not an arson prevention program.

http://www.interfire.org/features/Ab...ectToolBox.asp

Take a look at the IAAI/USFA Abandoned Building Project.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Believe what you want...pal. We've been through this before...I see them and speak to them as they often spend some time observing with my Battalion when in town. They are from all over your neck of the woods and there is plenty of research that can be found in old fire engineerings and WNYF's. They've been comming here for quite some time. You'd be very surprised at the genesis of many procedures and accepted practices out there. We've even had long standing relationships with the military and much of our procedures came from men with Military backgrounds.

There is very little original thought out there...most are modifications or outright duplications of concepts that are most often driven by expereinces and necessity. Your USAR X is a modification off other ideas....I won't say where....

I imagine there are some industrial engineers somewhere who were buffs who did a paper or two on this subject...any one out there?

And we do the same...it isn't something to be embarased about...we sent firemen to London during the Blitz to learn what we could from them while the Krauts were laying waste to GB.

FTM-PTB

Hey Fred. Next, he'll be telling you that the initials FDNY actually originated in California.

[FFFRED]

Bro- I believe you when you say you get a lot of visitors from here asking about how to do this and that.

But USAR and building markings started here, from what I know. And NIMS is based on FireSCOPE and FS was based on the military.

Go back and read all the articles about who uses NIMS and who doesn't...I'm not going to revisit it.

Tell your yarns, but not everything fire service is based on XXNY. Some people have developed other tactics, strategies and ways from other sources.

No I never said everything is based on us...much of it comes from East of Texas however....that is my point We've borrowed ideas from other cities as well. You either don't understand or don't want to understand that newer and less experienced cities got their inhabitants and many of their ideas from places where the transplants were from and brought with them ideas and procedures...and it is always much easier to use someone else's blueprint than to start from scratch.

Side note- Dont you NY guys ever think that not everyone worships you? I mean damn, we had some FDNY guys come into my firehouse once to visit right after 9/11 and....lets just say I would not act that way when a guest in someone's house.

A. Are you sure they were from here...heard and even ran into some imposters over the years. B. I don't know if anyone worships us nor do I care. I'm not sure where you got this idea in your head that we keep ourselves going based on some Hollywood facination complex.
C. There are d*cks on my job...just the same there is at least one d*ck on your job!

If you could just site some of your sources, I would love to see them.

I just did that in a prior thread and you didn't even bother to take the time to read it, understand it and comprehend it before calling it a bunch of BS...so I have better things to do with my time. Research it yourself...I gave you two great places to look.

FTM-PTB

[nameless]

My dept. is so progressive, we are right past being enthralled with all this "new" stuff and are back to using many "traditional" methods and a few "new" methods.

[CALFFBOU]

A. Are you sure they were from here...heard and even ran into some imposters over the years. B. I don't know if anyone worships us nor do I care. I'm not sure where you got this idea in your head that we keep ourselves going based on some Hollywood facination complex.
C. There are d*cks on my job...just the same there is at least one d*ck on your job!

I just did that in a prior thread and you didn't even bother to take the time to read it, understand it and comprehend it before calling it a bunch of BS...so I have better things to do with my time. Research it yourself...I gave you two great places to look.

FTM-PTB

Yes, they were from there and the real thing. If you remember, a very rich man that owns PELCO camera business in Central CA flew hundreds of FDNY/NYPD members out to his house and gave the a major BBQ all on his dime. I was there and very humbled, it was on the national news. And these guys also came to my station and we took care of them. Lots of photos to prove the event

Granted these visitors are a very smaller percentage of the agency represented. But I did not like the way these current members of the FDNY spoke or treated some of us. They were in our house but....I won’t comment any further.

As for your sources, they were outdated department policies that didn’t really related to the thread and subject matter at hand. If I am referring to the wrong thread, sorry, please re-direct me cuz I missed it then.

As for the topic at hand- As for the whole marking of the house with the "X" thing, all I can do is respond to the comment directed at me and give an honest answer, we started doing it here sometime in the 60s or 70s after all of the earthquakes. I wouldnt call it "progressive", just an operational tactic.

And FFFred, your attitude and demeanor simply supports and justifies my position. You seem to be upset I am not on the wagon train, not humping your leg like others here. Please give me something to work with than SCBA bite blocks, Rescue Me, the Bronx Bend and horse and hay lofts.

Respectfully, Bou

[CALFFBOU]

My dept. is so progressive, we are right past being enthralled with all this "new" stuff and are back to using many "traditional" methods and a few "new" methods.

Some wise person once told me- "Everyting in moderation" and "Use baby steps".

Not everything new and progressive is the hot ticket. ie- Reflective vests over turnout coats.

[voyager9]

We are so "progressive" that it isn't even progressive to call yourself progressive anymore. We've achieved such a high state of progressivicationess that we have been able to shed the mortal coil and remove all physical trappings such as PPE, apparatus, and hose. We're able to guarantee 100% success with nothing more then a notepad and, for the real tough jobs, a safety vest.

[sfd1992]

JHC.......again?

Are some of you on a mission to see how many threads you can d--k up with the same old tired horsesh-t?

[FFFRED]

Yes, they were from there and the real thing. If you remember, a very rich man that owns PELCO camera business in Central CA flew hundreds of FDNY/NYPD members out to his house and gave the a major BBQ all on his dime. I was there and very humbled, it was on the national news. And these guys also came to my station and we took care of them. Lots of photos to prove the event

Granted these visitors are a very smaller percentage of the agency represented. But I did not like the way these current members of the FDNY spoke or treated some of us. They were in our house but....I won’t comment any further.

I know what you refer to and I appologise... That is most certainly not representative of us.

As for your sources, they were outdated department policies that didn’t really related to the thread and subject matter at hand. If I am referring to the wrong thread, sorry, please re-direct me cuz I missed it then.

I assure you they are most certainly up to date and current. If I had produced policies on "banking the coal furnance" or proper steam pressure to be maintained in the boiler...then yes, your view would be valid...however it is not.

As for the whole marking of the house with the "X" thing, all I can do is respond to the comment directed at me and give an honest answer, we started doing it here sometime in the 60s or 70s after all of the earthquakes.

Fair enough.

And FFFred, your attitude and demeanor simply supports and justifies my position. You seem to be upset I am not on the wagon train, not humping your legs like everyone else. Please give me something to work with than SCBA bite blocks, Rescue Me, the Bronx Bend and horse and hay lofts.

I could give a f*ck less if you are on the "wagon train" as you call it. No one humps my leg and most often those like yourself, mischaracterize our job, procedures and history with your dislike of anything developed or practiced before you waltzed in the front door of a firehouse. It should be clear...most have a strong distaste for us and what we do. I simply attempt to explain it and not allow ignorance to stain the pool of ideas and concepts being exchanged on these forums.

Now I have to go take a mark in the journal!

FTM-PTB

[BryanLoader]

Its funny how some peoples posts continue to support the old adage
" If they were half as good as they claim they are, they would be twice as good as they actually are."

[CALFFBOU]

I know what you refer to and I appologise... That is most certainly not representative of us.


I assure you they are most certainly up to date and current. If I had produced policies on "banking the coal furnance" or proper steam pressure to be maintained in the boiler...then yes, your view would be valid...however it is not.

Fair enough.


I could give a f*ck less if you are on the "wagon train" as you call it. No one humps my leg and most often those like yourself, mischaracterize our job, procedures and history with your dislike of anything developed or practiced before you waltzed in the front door of a firehouse. It should be clear...most have a strong distaste for us and what we do. I simply attempt to explain it and not allow ignorance to stain the pool of ideas and concepts being exchanged on these forums.

Now I have to go take a mark in the journal!

FTM-PTB

No need to apologize. Again, a small few doesn’t make up the whole agency.

I am sure the SOPs there are up to date and current; they just didn’t address my question at the time. No big deal.

I know you don’t care and it really doesn’t matter. As for the fire service as a whole; again, I respect and practice tradition. What works there, works fine and like most anything can be improved. If it wasn’t for all of us here progressing to a computer- you wouldn’t be reading this message.

I have never told anyone here they have to accept my opinions, ways or be progressive. I just state and share my experiences and education. I don’t want NY shoved down my neck like you don’t want CA shoved down yours. I just get tired of people telling me I have to be like New York and act like Rescue Me.. I do? Why? Because tradition? Why?

And I do NOT have a strong disstate for you or the FDNY. In fact, I have major respect for ALL of them or I would not have hosted them in my house or personally assisted them on my own time and dime. I just do the best job I can do for the people. I rely on progress and technology to help me serve and dont like people telling me I need to change or go backwards because of tradition.

I hope that explains it and thank you for engaging me.

Bou

[CALFFBOU]

Its funny how some peoples posts continue to support the old adage
" If they were half as good as they claim they are, they would be twice as good as they actually are."

Or one of my favorites- "The more I learn, the more I realize the less I knew".

[CALFFBOU]

OUCH!! Wonder where this one is going to go?!?!?!

Right down the pooper with the rest of them.

[nyckftbl]

Its funny how some peoples posts continue to support the old adage
" If they were half as good as they claim they are, they would be twice as good as they actually are."

You use a stepladder to get on your soapbox, or does someone lift you up?

[nyckftbl]

Right down the pooper with the rest of them.

I was laughing like hell when I posted that...figured its been too quiet around here.

[RFD1067]

Hey Fred. Next, he'll be telling you that the initials FDNY actually originated in California.

At least they could then claim to be progressive.