Thread: Smart Move

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    Probably a poor time to bring it up but: I'm PRETTY sure there were several(many) Fire Departments operating here on the East coast LONG before there even was a FD on the left coast.Or the State of California. I'm also reasonably certain we would be able to manage our incidents just fine WITHOUT all those fabulous ideas that were "invented" on the west Coast. Have we gotten some good stuff from out West? Of course but no more than they have "stolen" from us. How many turnout gear mfgs are in Ca? Now one more question,How is it that New Orleans has vagrants/transients but Bossier parrish has none? Geographically is it that much travel distance? T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Let me explain THIS to you really slow...

    There are federal court cases (supercedes the state courts) that allow in an insurer to recover their damages from parties responsible for the damages. These cases are cut and dry and are the foundation for subrogation litigation today.

    If an insured property burns to the ground, the chance that the exact origin and cause of the loss diminshes greatly. The insurer may not be able to prove the culpability of the insured in court. But that does not preclude them from going after other parties.

    If the investigation revealed that the FD stood by and watched the insured property burned to the ground, there are very ffew insurance cos. who are not going to explore the possibility of subrogation against the party responsible for the increase in damages between what would have happened if the FD did their job and what happened when they were gutless and sttod by and watched. I know of several insurance cos. who would go after this case in a heartbeat.

    There would be some mitigating factors in that the FD didn't cause the fire, but it would be easy to meet the standard-gross negligence-to prove responsibility.

    And yes, it would be a case opened under federal jurisdiction if the insurance co. operates in more than one state. My estimate is that this would include about 99.999% of all insurance cos.

    So, you keep on working under the **** poor legal advice you have been given. l would think that if your FD members had any self-respect, that when they were faced with this situation, they would put the fire out and dare the property owner to sue them. In order to succesfully pursue litigation, he would have to prove damages. Please enlighten us as to how he would prove damages in a case such as this?

    I am not a lawyer and I do not give legal advice. I merely post in areas where I have knowledge of the legal area when I have been involved in the situations. I would welcome the input of any attorneys we may have on the forum as to my interpretation of the litigation prospects.
    George
    I'm sure you are correct in your facts, but wouldn't that only be the case if the insurance company paid out? I kinda think that if some clown did try to file an insurance claim after burning down his barn or whatever, the first insurance adjuster on scene would probably pull out the release that the guy signed for the FD and laugh in the guys face.
    Another thing to consider is that Louisiana is quite a lot like Texas in that the property owner is just as likely to pull out a gun and start shooting FF who did try to put the fire out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    If he files an insurance claim, and the insurance co. finds out you let his property burn down, the insurance co. has every reason to come after your FD for the bulk of the damages. I would love to be involved in that case.
    If he burned his own house and then filed a claim... The insurance wouldn't pay, eh? Wouldn't it be some sort of fraud at that point? Isn't there some sort of "you can't burn your own stuff and have us pay for it" clause in most policies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    George
    I'm sure you are correct in your facts, but wouldn't that only be the case if the insurance company paid out? I kinda think that if some clown did try to file an insurance claim after burning down his barn or whatever, the first insurance adjuster on scene would probably pull out the release that the guy signed for the FD and laugh in the guys face.
    Another thing to consider is that Louisiana is quite a lot like Texas in that the property owner is just as likely to pull out a gun and start shooting FF who did try to put the fire out.
    That may not be the case. The insurance co. can only deny the claim if one of the policy provisions is expressly violated. Unless "convincing the gutless fire fighters not to fight the fire" is expressly mentioned in the policy, a denial may not be possible.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    How is it that New Orleans has vagrants/transients but Bossier parrish has none? Geographically is it that much travel distance?
    The two are about 300 miles apart. Google Maps says that it would take 104 hours to walk from one to the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Probably a poor time to bring it up but: I'm PRETTY sure there were several(many) Fire Departments operating here on the East coast LONG before there even was a FD on the left coast.Or the State of California. I'm also reasonably certain we would be able to manage our incidents just fine WITHOUT all those fabulous ideas that were "invented" on the west Coast. Have we gotten some good stuff from out West? Of course but no more than they have "stolen" from us. How many turnout gear mfgs are in Ca? Now one more question,How is it that New Orleans has vagrants/transients but Bossier parrish has none? Geographically is it that much travel distance? T.C.
    Itís always best to type a post when sober, seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    That may not be the case. The insurance co. can only deny the claim if one of the policy provisions is expressly violated. Unless "convincing the gutless fire fighters not to fight the fire" is expressly mentioned in the policy, a denial may not be possible.
    I'm certainly no legal expert George, but wouldn't purposely burning down property be a violation of any insurance policy? Also, your derogatory statement about the level of courage on those firefighters, while safely ensconced behind your keyboard certainly says alot about your level of courage as well as class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    I'm certainly no legal expert George, but wouldn't purposely burning down property be a violation of any insurance policy? Also, your derogatory statement about the level of courage on those firefighters, while safely ensconced behind your keyboard certainly says alot about your level of courage as well as class.
    I'm sorry. I temporarily made an error. I actually thought you wanted to engage in an intelligent discussion. As in the past, you have proven yourself incapable and ill-equipped.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I'm sorry. I temporarily made an error. I actually thought you wanted to engage in an intelligent discussion. As in the past, you have proven yourself incapable and ill-equipped.
    Not going to get into another crap throwing contest with you George. I've vowed never to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

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    Cozmo,and if one hitchhikes?

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    Now Bou,why would I want to do that and ruin a perfectly good rant?Hehe T.c.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Not going to get into another crap throwing contest with you George. I've vowed never to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

    Might as well join the club with the rest of the people George hates. (Its a California thing)
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 02-05-2009 at 03:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    Might as well join the club with the rest of the people George hates. (Its a California thing)
    If you think for a moment that I "hate" anyone because of an Internet forum, you have a distorted view of me. I don't care, but you do.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    How is it that New Orleans has vagrants/transients but Bossier parrish has none? Geographically is it that much travel distance? T.C

    It's about a 7-hour drive from northwest LA to New Orleans.
    It's worlds apart.

    New Orleans has many homeless. Our area has none.

    George ....

    These laws regarding us not having the legal authority to extinguish a fire if the owner says we can't have been on the books for excess of 50 years, and not one fire department has been sued yet.

    I'm no legal expert either but something tells me in that time, some insurance company would have tried to collect.

    It's very simple. We have no legal authority to extinguish the fire if the homeowner says we can't. Therefore we have no duty to act. That is what the law says. That is what every fire department in the state does that operates in a parish without burning ordinances. The attorney general says we are protected because we do not have the legal right to act. And not one insurance company has collected a dime from any fire department who has followed the law in that case in 50 years.

    I think we're pretty safe. And I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Bones: The building marking system that Massachusetts has was developed after the Worcester Cold Storage Fire.. we all know what happened there.

    The only complaints we have had in my community is neighbors commenting on how when we "mark a building" decreases their property value.

    My answer is take it up with the owners who allowed the property being marked to turn into an eyesore. The lives of our personnel supercedes the value of the properties adjacent to the marked building.

    Some of these properties are owned by some very large banks as a result of foreclosure. We have legislation pending review by the City Solicitor and approval of the City Council that would require the banks who foreclose on a property to properly winterize (the vast majority of our "water coming out of the house" calls are a result of pipes freezing) and secure the property. Failure to do so would result in fines on a daily basis.

    Marking a building isn't done willy-nilly. The FD goes to inspect the property with Code enforcement and we then determine whether the building needs to be marked at all, marked for "limited interior ops" or marked with "no interior operations" signage.

    We have 10 marked buildings in town. Considering the fact that there are 13,000+ structures in town, that isn't much at all.
    Gonzo, I don't doubt your states policy and how it works. I don't hold that same faith for a certain area in LA.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    If you think for a moment that I "hate" anyone because of an Internet forum, you have a distorted view of me. I don't care, but you do.
    My views of you are based on your actions and how you treat people in here. Unfortunatly, its been pretty poor over the last few months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    My views of you are based on your actions and how you treat people in here. Unfortunatly, its been pretty poor over the last few months.
    He treats people in here poorly?!? Go back to your name calling and making fun of children. Maybe you can find a kid in a wheelchair and really have a good laugh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whocares View Post
    He treats people in here poorly?!? Go back to your name calling and making fun of children. Maybe you can find a kid in a wheelchair and really have a good laugh.
    Thank you. You beat me to it.

    And, for the record, I do not hate anyone here.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whocares View Post
    He treats people in here poorly?!? Go back to your name calling and making fun of children. Maybe you can find a kid in a wheelchair and really have a good laugh.
    Again- I find it pretty funny that a member in here can follow another around and harass them for months. That same member can constantly dish it out, but then cant take it and publicly EXPLOITS his son and tugs on the heart strings of the public asking people to feel sorry for him. He did NOT have to tell everyone about his son, be he chose to go public. Dont dish it out if you cant take it.

    As for George, you seem to go after and **** off a lot of members in here. Why your targets are selectivly on the West Coast, I dont know. But its clear, you dont have a lot of (West Coast) friends in here.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 02-06-2009 at 01:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    Again- I find it pretty funny that a member in here can follow another around and harass them for months. That same member can constantly dish it out, but then cant take it and publicly EXPLOITS his son and tugs on the heart strings of the public asking people to feel sorry for him. He did NOT have to tell everyone about his son, be he chose to go public. Dont dish it out if you cant take it.

    As for George, you seem to go after and **** off a lot of members in here. Why your targets are selectivly on the West Coast, I dont know. But its clear, you dont have a lot of (West Coast) friends in here.
    I had a long reply, but this thread is not about me. Carry on.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Dont dish it out if you cant take it.
    My fellow forum members...

    There are occasions where it takes the better man or woman to walk away.

    As Stan Lee of Marvel Comics says so eloquently...

    E'nuff said!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Dont dish it out if you cant take it.

    Seems to me there is only one still squawking. And no, I'm not "clowning" you out, you did that to yourself.

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    I'm curious about this whole "burn your own house down" thing.
    If someone burns off a pile of comp shingles, they can get hammered by the EPA. That's a Federal thing, not local. They get rather ****y about plumes of smoke. Has nothing to do with local statutes.
    When we have a training burn, we have to get about 20 things checked off, like a letter of asbestos status/abatement.
    We need a letter from Public Works, the different Utilities, the PD (traffic), all stating that the burn with have minimal impact on the area, and that the necessary things have been taken care of (meter pulled, gas shut off at street, etc).
    But in LA, people can just light off a pile of whatever they want, including a house with asbestos siding, comp shingles,an active gas line, and next to a hospital?
    And were supposed to believe that no one is gonna have a problem with that?
    I'm thinking something doesn't make sense there, even if Napoleon is in charge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flipper123 View Post
    But in LA, people can just light off a pile of whatever they want, including a house with asbestos siding, comp shingles,an active gas line, and next to a hospital? And were supposed to believe that no one is gonna have a problem with that? I'm thinking something doesn't make sense there, even if Napoleon is in charge.
    You were probably correct until you hit the gas line. At that point, someone else has an interest in the fire -- the gas company. The bit about being next door to a hospital is mostly irrelevant, too, because all of his claims have been about unincorporated areas of the parish (i.e. rural), where I imagine there are few hospitals.

    I'll admit that LaFireEducator says a lot of flaky things on these boards... However, unless you've spent any considerable amount of time in Louisiana (a trip to Mardi Gras does not count), it's hard to understand how different that state is. There is a completely different mindset about a lot of things -- different even from neighboring states. None of what he has said sounds too far off the mark for me (I lived in LA for four years).

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    Quote Originally Posted by cozmosis View Post
    You were probably correct until you hit the gas line. At that point, someone else has an interest in the fire -- the gas company. The bit about being next door to a hospital is mostly irrelevant, too, because all of his claims have been about unincorporated areas of the parish (i.e. rural), where I imagine there are few hospitals.

    I'll admit that LaFireEducator says a lot of flaky things on these boards... However, unless you've spent any considerable amount of time in Louisiana (a trip to Mardi Gras does not count), it's hard to understand how different that state is.
    Didn't DC Comics have a Superman series about an alternate universe called Bizzaro World? It sounds like it fits Looziana to a T!

    There is a completely different mindset about a lot of things -- different even from neighboring states. None of what he has said sounds too far off the mark for me (I lived in LA for four years).
    You had the common sense to escape.. like the title of this thread...smart move!
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 02-07-2009 at 04:39 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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