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  1. #1
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    Question Henderson,NV FD not responding to AFA's?

    Anyone else see something about the Henderson Nevada FD no longer responding to AFA's unless they have corroborating telephone reports of smoke or fire?

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    In 20 years of FF'ing, I can think of about 5 incidents that were alarm activations (in the middle of the night, mostly in commercial properties) that turned into working incidents of some significance, and none of them had follow-up phone calls reporting smoke or fire. I am interested to see how long this policy lasts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    In 20 years of FF'ing, I can think of about 5 incidents that were alarm activations (in the middle of the night, mostly in commercial properties) that turned into working incidents of some significance, and none of them had follow-up phone calls reporting smoke or fire. I am interested to see how long this policy lasts.
    Which is exactly what they are going to use to justify the policy. Not saying I agree with it, but with the down turn of the econonmy and everyone crying broke I would not look for this policy to change, but for many more fire departments to be following suit.
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    How many police depts dont respond to burglar alarms? Im curious.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    In 20 years of FF'ing, I can think of about 5 incidents that were alarm activations (in the middle of the night, mostly in commercial properties) that turned into working incidents of some significance, and none of them had follow-up phone calls reporting smoke or fire. I am interested to see how long this policy lasts.
    Ive been to 4 in the past 24 months, 2 of which were in occupied multiple dwellings or AIDS/nursing home facilities.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    They've been doing this for 8 months or so, and apparently haven't been bitten (yet). Good idea? Bad idea? I guess that's up to the HFD and their political leadership. I can't imagine our management and city gov't signing off on it though.
    ----------------------------------------------


    From hendersonfirefighters.com


    Here is the lastest update from Chief Goble

    Fire Alarm Responses:

    Our fire alarm response policy has spurred some response from the community. We stopped responding to fire alarms back in June; in October our fire code was revised to reflect this practice. We continue to respond to fire alarms from high risk occupancies like schools, hospitals, and government facilities. We also still respond to water flow alarms, which are a more accurate indicator of whether or not there is a fire. Since the policy has been enacted we have dramatically reduced the number of responses to false alarms. In October 2006 (pre-policy) we responded to 145 fire alarms of one sort or other; in October 2007 we responded to 34. This has benefited us operationally by increasing our availability to respond and enhancing safety by reducing our exposure to the perils of the roadway while responding. In a study of data covering the last three years we found a total of 4761 fire alarm calls, 31 of which were coded with some sort of indicator that products of combustion were present. Of the 31, 15 were calls that would not be affected by the policy change (responses to schools, hospitals, etc. or water flow alarms). That leaves 16 calls or .003%. We checked all 16 calls and found 10 were due to cooking errors, 3 were out on arrival, 2 were called in as alarms by passersby (non-monitored systems), and 1 was an alarm activation at a nearby facility. We donít believe that the fire department response initiated by the alarm company made a difference in any of these events

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    How many police depts dont respond to burglar alarms? Im curious.

    There are 24 Police agencies who practice verified response they include:
    Las Vegas Metro Police Department
    Fremont (Ca.) Police Department
    Lane County Sheriff Department
    Arvada, Colorado Police Department
    West Valley, Utah Police Department
    Salt Lake City Police Department
    Taylorsville, Utah Police Department
    Henderson, Nevada Police Department
    Eugene, Oregon Police Department
    Victoria, British Columbia Police Department
    Murray, Utah Police Department
    Salem, Oregon Police Department
    Winnipeg, Canada Police Department
    Yakima, Washington Police Department
    Westminster, Colorado Police Department
    Breckenridge, Colorado Police Department
    Summit County, Colorado Sheriff's Department
    Broomfield, Colorado Police Department
    Lakewood, Colorado Police Department
    South Salt Lake City, Utah Police Department
    Burien, Washington Police Department
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin Police Department
    Bellingham, Washington Police Department
    Aurora, Colorado Police Department

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    Quote Originally Posted by localtrainer75 View Post
    There are 24 Police agencies who practice verified response they include:
    Las Vegas Metro Police Department
    Fremont (Ca.) Police Department
    Lane County Sheriff Department
    Arvada, Colorado Police Department
    West Valley, Utah Police Department
    Salt Lake City Police Department
    Taylorsville, Utah Police Department
    Henderson, Nevada Police Department
    Eugene, Oregon Police Department
    Victoria, British Columbia Police Department
    Murray, Utah Police Department
    Salem, Oregon Police Department
    Winnipeg, Canada Police Department
    Yakima, Washington Police Department
    Westminster, Colorado Police Department
    Breckenridge, Colorado Police Department
    Summit County, Colorado Sheriff's Department
    Broomfield, Colorado Police Department
    Lakewood, Colorado Police Department
    South Salt Lake City, Utah Police Department
    Burien, Washington Police Department
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin Police Department
    Bellingham, Washington Police Department
    Aurora, Colorado Police Department
    And how does one verify a burglary in progress? Are criminals calling up?
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    Posted by RFDACM02
    Anyone else see something about the Henderson Nevada FD no longer responding to AFA's unless they have corroborating telephone reports of smoke or fire?
    Originally Posted by FWDbuff
    In 20 years of FF'ing, I can think of about 5 incidents that were alarm activations (in the middle of the night, mostly in commercial properties) that turned into working incidents of some significance, and none of them had follow-up phone calls reporting smoke or fire. I am interested to see how long this policy lasts.
    Posted by Memphis E34A
    Which is exactly what they are going to use to justify the policy. Not saying I agree with it, but with the down turn of the econonmy and everyone crying broke I would not look for this policy to change, but for many more fire departments to be following suit.
    Posted by sfd1992
    They've been doing this for 8 months or so, and apparently haven't been bitten (yet). Good idea? Bad idea? I guess that's up to the HFD and their political leadership. I can't imagine our management and city gov't signing off on it though.
    From hendersonfirefighters.com


    Here is the lastest update from Chief Goble

    Fire Alarm Responses:

    Our fire alarm response policy has spurred some response from the community. We stopped responding to fire alarms back in June; in October our fire code was revised to reflect this practice. We continue to respond to fire alarms from high risk occupancies like schools, hospitals, and government facilities. We also still respond to water flow alarms, which are a more accurate indicator of whether or not there is a fire. Since the policy has been enacted we have dramatically reduced the number of responses to false alarms. In October 2006 (pre-policy) we responded to 145 fire alarms of one sort or other; in October 2007 we responded to 34. This has benefited us operationally by increasing our availability to respond and enhancing safety by reducing our exposure to the perils of the roadway while responding. In a study of data covering the last three years we found a total of 4761 fire alarm calls, 31 of which were coded with some sort of indicator that products of combustion were present. Of the 31, 15 were calls that would not be affected by the policy change (responses to schools, hospitals, etc. or water flow alarms). That leaves 16 calls or .003%. We checked all 16 calls and found 10 were due to cooking errors, 3 were out on arrival, 2 were called in as alarms by passersby (non-monitored systems), and 1 was an alarm activation at a nearby facility. We donít believe that the fire department response initiated by the alarm company made a difference in any of these events
    When they don't respond and it does turn out to be a fire... I wonder how many zeroes and commas will be in the check that the City if Henderson will have to pay out for the loss.

    Perils of the roadway? I call this as bovine scat. Look at the date the policy was instituted. What was the price of diesel fuel at that time. It was a cost cutting measure. Wrapping rotted fish in pretty paper does not mask the fact that the fish is rotted.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Do they do EMS?
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    Sounds like a reasonable way to reduce firefighter risk to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Sounds like a reasonable way to reduce firefighter risk to me.
    Coming from the person who does nothing to protect the members from the number 1 killer of firefighters in this country.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Question

    I wonder if a business's insurance would go up if they found out about the FD's response plan or lack there of?
    DixieFire53, Deputy Fire Chief FF/EMT-P, Local 272

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Sounds like a reasonable way to reduce firefighter risk to me.
    I honestly don't know how to responded to that statement. Are you a complete dolt? Where did you get your firefighting educations???? Being from LA you might think LSU but there is absolutely no way! I got my NFPA 1001-1-2 From LSU and they are not that incompetent. Their is absolutely no way you have had any formal firefighting education! Absolutely not.

    I am flabbergasted!!
    DixieFire53, Deputy Fire Chief FF/EMT-P, Local 272

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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieFire53 View Post
    I honestly don't know how to responded to that statement. Are you a complete dolt? Where did you get your firefighting educations???? Being from LA you might think LSU but there is absolutely no way! I got my NFPA 1001-1-2 From LSU and they are not that incompetent. Their is absolutely no way you have had any formal firefighting education! Absolutely not.

    I am flabbergasted!!
    While I share your sentiment, it's obvious the City of Henderson also must be run by complete dolts.

    I wonder how they justify requiring NFPA 72 and 101 fire alarms in buildings in their city when they are obviously telling the citizens that they're unreliable.

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    I honestly don't know how to responded to that statement. Are you a complete dolt? Where did you get your firefighting educations???? Being from LA you might think LSU but there is absolutely no way! I got my NFPA 1001-1-2 From LSU and they are not that incompetent. Their is absolutely no way you have had any formal firefighting education! Absolutely not.

    And why are you flabbergasted?

    Tell me everything you know about Henderson NV.

    Do you know their response history? Do you know how many alarm trips have turned out to be fires in the last 2 years? 5 years? Do you know od any apparatus accident history that possibly triggered this move? Do you know their staffing? Their station locations?

    I would guess the answer is no.

    Yet, you, and everybody else who has posted has said this is a terrible, inexcusable move without knowing anything about the community or their fire statistics.

    So because you don't think it's right, it's wrong for that community?

    They still respond to high-risk facilities. They still respond to water flow alarms. But they have made the decision that firefighter safety overrides the decision to respond to every alarm .... 99% or more of which may very well be false.

    Fire departments respond differently to protecting their personnel. That should be the absolute number 1 concern. The public is always number 2. Always.

    They have obviously looked at their numbers and concluded that alarms do not correlate to fires in thier community. So they made the decision that this would seemingly be a way to reduce firefighter risk.

    Did you happen to notice that Henderson NV is also on the list for PDs that don't respond to unverified alarms. Maybe they borrowed a little wisdom from the police department, who very well may have found out that not responding on alarms didn't cause murders, rapes, robberies and general pillage to soar because of that policy.

    We all sit here and talk about how this and that works for us. Maybe, just maybe, this works for Henderson NV.

    I don't know a damn thing about Henderson, but I do know that in the 4 communities I have served in since 83, fire alarms have turned out to be fires requiring extinguishment less than .5% of the time. That's a 99.5% false or extinguished on arrival rate. Hardly numbers to get your panties in a wad about. Henderson's active fire rate on arrival is even lower than that, according to the article.

    This comes down to simple math. Our risk vs, civilan risk. A 99.7% extinguishment/non-event rate is a pretty compelling argument for firefighter safety.

    It's really a local decision anyways. Or at least that is what a lot of you say when it involves your community.

    And by the way Dixie, I'm from NY and VT, not here. I merely tested out my northern certs at LSU.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 02-09-2009 at 07:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator
    Fire departments respond differently to protecting their personnel. That should be the absolute number 1 concern. The public is always number 2. Always
    Your Sheriff would like a word with you...

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    FireBuff.....

    So you feel that our safety is not the number one consideration on the fireground?????

    That's not what most instructors are saying today.

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    Being fairly new to firefighting.... Why not err to the side of caution ? Why wait to see if someone calls in with fire and smoke reports ? If the city fire codes demand fire alarms be in place and working WHY would you ignore them ? Even if I had a .5% chance my house was on fire I would want someone that had been notified to check it out. Isn't it a life saftey issue ? I would bet insurance rates would sky rocket scince all privite proprety alarms are waved off.

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    So you feel that our safety is not the number one consideration on the fireground?????
    FF safety is very important, but I don't believe public safety should be "always number 2."
    IACOJ member.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Sounds like a reasonable way to reduce firefighter risk to me.
    Now that is just rediculous. Why don't we just require every patient to be a drive up, fuel delivered to the station and business owneres can submit thier own preplans. That we will never have to go anywhere but a fire!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    But does it really matter what anyone outside of Henderson, NV thinks about the policy?

    No.

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    If you applied that school of thought to your own opinions, you would only post in threads started about Bossier Parish,LA.

    And that would be how often? Yeah, hear the crickets?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Do they do EMS?
    yes henderson runs ALS Engine's

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    What is even the point of spending money on the alarm system if the FD will not trust an alarm coming from it without a back up call? What is the point of buying/maintaining the system?


    If they are concerned about the "perils of the road way" they should respond cold. If they are concerned about units being tied up they should respond in service.

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