1. #1
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    Default Recirculation, pump to tank, tank fill valves & flow meters

    Hi everyone. Our new Pierce Velocity pumper has a Husky 12 foam system. Our flow meter is somehow integrated thru the screen for the foam system. You read your flow rate thru the foam system center. I have noticed that when the tank fill valve is open or even the recirculator, that it does not register on the flowmeter. Has anyone noticed this before? Does anyone have a flowmeter that does register this? Im trying to picture some of the piping to see if the tank fill is off of the pump discharge and should register. Any background info on this would be helpful!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MBH123 View Post
    Hi everyone. Our new Pierce Velocity pumper has a Husky 12 foam system. Our flow meter is somehow integrated thru the screen for the foam system. You read your flow rate thru the foam system center. I have noticed that when the tank fill valve is open or even the recirculator, that it does not register on the flowmeter. Has anyone noticed this before? Does anyone have a flowmeter that does register this? Im trying to picture some of the piping to see if the tank fill is off of the pump discharge and should register. Any background info on this would be helpful!
    I can't speak for your system in particular, but with many, such as our Waterous Eclipse, that water does not pass through the flow meter. Since the flow meter resides in the foam manifold, only water going into the foam manifold passes through the flow meter. You might be able to check by flowing some water through a water only discharge and see if you get the same result.

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    Like Sam says, your foam system is likely plumbed for a specific number of discharges. In our case, there are 4 discharges that can flow foam. They are piped into a foam manifold, which is just a 3" pipe that comes off the main pump body and those 4 discharges are piped off the manifold block. The actual flow meter is in the feed line to the manifold and registers the total water flow into the foam manifold. I would assume the Pierce system is similar. The flow meter is crucial to set the rate in which the foam pump puts concentrate into the system based on the total flow of water through the foam manifold. So, the flowmeter is a critical device to regulate the flow of foam concentrate for accurate proportioning. With the tank fill valve, there is no foam flowing into your tank (from the manifold) so there is no reading on the screen.

    Since the flow meter shows the total water flow to the manifold, you can use it to set the GPM flow of the first attack line you flow. Once you flow additional lines the flow meter reading will then show total water flow and you will not know exactly how much water is flowing to each discharge using just the flow meter reading.

    Look at the piping and try to locate the flow meter and trace the piping to determine how its all plumbed.

    Good luck.

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    Hi,

    Just like Sam and MG stated, the flow meter only meters the liquid that flows thru the foam manifold. Your re-ciculation vlave and/or tank fill valve are plumbed to the water only (before the foam maniflod) portion of the pump. As I would assume that there are water only discharges as well plumped ahead of the foam manifold.

    If your tank fill and re-circulation valve were plumbed to the other side of the foam manifold you would get soup in your booster tank. Bubbles all over and that would be bad.

    Hope this helps.

    Be safe,

    Capt Lou
    "Got Foam?"

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    Default Good info

    Thanks everyone for getting back to me soon. The reason this came up is because I bought a pump operator simulator software for some inclimate weather/indoor training and new pump operator scenarios. In the software, when you open the tank fill you get a reading on the flow meter, which I initially thought was odd but I guess it does make some sense. Has anyone heard of any flow meters doing this regardless of the existence of a foam system?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MBH123 View Post
    Thanks everyone for getting back to me soon. The reason this came up is because I bought a pump operator simulator software for some inclimate weather/indoor training and new pump operator scenarios. In the software, when you open the tank fill you get a reading on the flow meter, which I initially thought was odd but I guess it does make some sense. Has anyone heard of any flow meters doing this regardless of the existence of a foam system?
    No reason in the world that you couldn't. You can put a flowmeter anywhere you have money to. Some departments have them on every discharge. If you want it, and have the cash to pay for it, you can have it.

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    I'm not familiar with the Husky system and everything else posted so far is right on with our experience. Your question made me think of a Class B foam system that would require you to flow from the tank only, and utilize a direct tank fill for outside water. In this case, a flow meter on the tank to pump would accurately provide the water flow to an around the pump system with potentially less turbulence than on the discharge manifold? Of course our Feecon around the pump foam system has zero electronics, so I'm only thinking aloud here,

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    When we had booster lines and the weather turned cold the procedure was to climb up and secure the booster to the tank-fill on top, open the tank to pump and crack the booster line valve open. This was called "circulating the pump" and it kept the pump from freezing and it kept the booster line from freezing.

    Now-a-days, we don't have any booster lines, but the idea is still there to keep the pump from freezing. So what to do, we crack open the tank fill and the tank to pump and spin the pump. Does this accomplish the same thing?

    As far as I can tell NO, and anyone who knows differently please correct me, but the tank fill and the tank to pump are plumbed to the INTAKE side of the pump. So the water is not really going anywhere. It's not drawing water from the tank and then forcing it back into the tank. Now there may be some trucks that are set up different, but I believe all of our trucks fill at the same rate regardless if the truck is in-pump or not in-pump.

    It still keeps things from freezing because spinning the pump is the key here, so that the movement and heat generated keep the water from freezing.

    Brian

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    Quote Originally Posted by SWFD22 View Post
    When we had booster lines and the weather turned cold the procedure was to climb up and secure the booster to the tank-fill on top, open the tank to pump and crack the booster line valve open. This was called "circulating the pump" and it kept the pump from freezing and it kept the booster line from freezing.

    Now-a-days, we don't have any booster lines, but the idea is still there to keep the pump from freezing. So what to do, we crack open the tank fill and the tank to pump and spin the pump. Does this accomplish the same thing?

    As far as I can tell NO, and anyone who knows differently please correct me, but the tank fill and the tank to pump are plumbed to the INTAKE side of the pump. So the water is not really going anywhere. It's not drawing water from the tank and then forcing it back into the tank. Now there may be some trucks that are set up different, but I believe all of our trucks fill at the same rate regardless if the truck is in-pump or not in-pump.

    It still keeps things from freezing because spinning the pump is the key here, so that the movement and heat generated keep the water from freezing.

    Brian
    You might want to take a look behind your pump panel. Unless it's a direct fill line that doesn't even pass through the pump, a tank fill line should be plumbed to the DISCHARGE side of the pump. If not, you want to have a discussion with whoever built the truck or whoever wrote the spec.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SWFD22
    Now-a-days, we don't have any booster lines, but the idea is still there to keep the pump from freezing. So what to do, we crack open the tank fill and the tank to pump and spin the pump. Does this accomplish the same thing?

    As far as I can tell NO, and anyone who knows differently please correct me, but the tank fill and the tank to pump are plumbed to the INTAKE side of the pump. So the water is not really going anywhere. It's not drawing water from the tank and then forcing it back into the tank. Now there may be some trucks that are set up different, but I believe all of our trucks fill at the same rate regardless if the truck is in-pump or not in-pump.

    It still keeps things from freezing because spinning the pump is the key here, so that the movement and heat generated keep the water from freezing.
    Brian
    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11
    You might want to take a look behind your pump panel. Unless it's a direct fill line that doesn't even pass through the pump, a tank fill line should be plumbed to the DISCHARGE side of the pump. If not, you want to have a discussion with whoever built the truck or whoever wrote the spec.
    Have to agree with the Chief on this one. If your tank fill is going through the pump, it is piped to the discharge on the pump, to the tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by SWFD22
    but I believe all of our trucks fill at the same rate regardless if the truck is in-pump or not in-pump.
    That is the exact reason that it is piped through the discharge.
    ( I may be wrong on the following) There is a difference in filling rate to the tank from a hydrant, whether or not your in pump mode, depending on your water PSI/Volume availability, and intake hose size. (it looks right, but doesn't sound right???)

    FM1

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    If your tank fill is going through the pump, it is piped to the discharge on the pump, to the tank.
    I will have to get under the trucks to check it out. I was told 15 years ago while learning the pump that the tank fill is not on the discharge side to avoid "pressurizing" the tank by exceeding the vent area.

    Brian

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    If you can fill the tank from a draft than the tank fill MUST be on the discharge side of the pump.

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