Unique testing opertunity

[Cheyennefire279]

cant get better odds then this... City of Cheyenne, Wyoming is accepting applications until feb 27th 2009. test is in June. so far only 38 people have signed up cant beat those odds. the list is good for two years and we have 12 firefighters looking to retire soon from the class of 1981. can get details on city of Cheyenne website

[secmas12]

This post is kind of frustrating. Those of us who are dreaming about actually getting hired by this department are now going to be diluted into yet another candidate pool.

Please don't apply unless you actually know about the department, value the opportunity, and would accept it if offered. Those of us who really want to work there want to have a good shot at getting a position!

I understand the posters motivation, but I've got a lot riding on this job opening. I know of a group of dedicated volunteer ff's at a local department that are planning on applying and would be a great fit for Cheyenne.

[CaponeCEO]

This post is kind of frustrating. Those of us who are dreaming about actually getting hired by this department are now going to be diluted into yet another candidate pool.

Please don't apply unless you actually know about the department, value the opportunity, and would accept it if offered. Those of us who really want to work there want to have a good shot at getting a position!

I understand the posters motivation, but I've got a lot riding on this job opening. I know of a group of dedicated volunteer ff's at a local department that are planning on applying and would be a great fit for Cheyenne.

I wouldnt take things so personal. If it was meant to be for you then it was meant to be. People will find out one way or another. Just work on being a better candidate then them.

[CaponeCEO]

What does Cheyenne run for staffing levels? The city does about 100 more runs a year then my dept. We run 6000 a year with 2 engines, 1 ambulance-cross staffed ladder. We have a very low 9 man per shift minimum, which is just crazy.

[ashncole]

I am always frustrated when I show up to a test and the parking lot is full of out of state vehicle. Id be even more frustrated when I got my test results and saw where I was. However I've finally decided thats just the way it is. My written is a weakness which doesnt show Im stupid. I graduated my fire acadamy with a 98% testing average. However I study my !@# off hoping I can get good enough that it doesnt matter whos showing up. I know Im the most qualified and Ill prove it by working hard. Part of improving scores is practicing by taking tests. I just signed up for a dept. that had a bunch of requirements that will prevent the crazy people that should maybe get something to show for qualifications from taking a spot from the qualified bad test takers. The pay was 21,000. a year. I can tell ya I wouldnt accept a position there but I'll test for the practice and experience. Its competetive. So beat the guys who are taking mine and your spot. Noone can score higher than 100%
Its quite a drive and I stopped in Cheyenne on my way to a texas fire acadamy and I thought It was a dump. I am considering testing.

[FortechFEO]

Who cares who is in the parking lot and how the job announcement gets out? It is in their best interest to get the largest and most diverse testing pool for their hiring that they can. 38 people does not sound like that. I guess my point is that if you put all your eggs in one basket and expect to be picked up by one department and get mad at the out of staters or someone that advertises the opening on here maybe you are not the right fit for that department. Myself personally. I like large testing pools. Makes getting offered a job that much sweeter. It is a validated response to beating 1,000+ other people. Lets me know that I am built out of the right stuff. Not that the department settled for the 12 people that signed up. An if someone is not serious about being there and they get offered the job they are probably going to turn it down anyway. So it goes to the next person on the list. Which could be you! Stop whining about everyone else and concentrate on making yourself the best canidate for the job. Study for the written, exercise for the physical, and use your tape recorder for the oral. Those out of staters want a firefighter job too. Whether they are using the WY test as a practice or are really interested who cares. I live in California. dang near everyone wants to live and work here. Testing is close to extreme. If I remeber correctly when LA opened their testing for the first time in 11 years. They had 150K+ applicants. San Fran just opened their testing in Jan and got 20K+. On the other hand my local volunteer department got a five year staffing grant and hired. They had 3 people apply. One person removed himself due to the lack of pay. They hired the other two. I would not feel like I earned that position.

[brownsquirrel]

Is there a minimum or maximum age? Thanks!

[FireEeyore]

This post is kind of frustrating. Those of us who are dreaming about actually getting hired by this department are now going to be diluted into yet another candidate pool.

Please don't apply unless you actually know about the department, value the opportunity, and would accept it if offered. Those of us who really want to work there want to have a good shot at getting a position!

I understand the posters motivation, but I've got a lot riding on this job opening. I know of a group of dedicated volunteer ff's at a local department that are planning on applying and would be a great fit for Cheyenne.

I can see why the post would be frustrating knowing that more people might attend if they find out about the testing process.

But, on the other hand, I really don't understand why you beleive you are more entitled to the job than "other" people are regardless of how you score and test.

[BackStepNBackWards]

Im quite at a loss at the statement made. You're basically asking people not to apply and test for a position because you KNOW you want the job more? Because you dont think they will value it as much as you. Sorry man, there are people out there that test for 5, 6, 7..sometime 10, 11, 12 fire departments because they VALUE the job. And here on the east coast, as im sure it is in the big cities on the west coast...THOUSANDS of people test for these jobs. City pride is great. But if someone from here wants to go out and test for a job in Wyoming cause it gives them a better chance...then God Bless them.

Ashncole....you just said you're frustrated when you show up and see a bunch of out-of-staters for a test, but then said you're going to test for a job just to practice...i dont see where you're any better than them.

The way I see it...the job is open..for the majority of the jobs across the country anybody (within a few guidelines) can test. Those who prepare the hardest get first shot at the positions. I think, from my personal experience, that the system is working pretty well. If i go and get an 85 on a big city test..its noones fault but my own that ill be waiting forever, if i even get a chance at the job

.02

[CaptBob]

I can't tell you how many times I've talked to volunteers from departments they've waited for years trying for that golden opportunity to get hired in that community as a full-paid fire fighter. Then they've blown it because they didn’t test anywhere else but right there. Then they went in and saw Paul was on the board. He knows Paul, they bowl. Randy over there, why he's married to Randy's cousin. My gosh, he knows everything about me. They come out, and somebody else gets their badge! It devastates them. They failed because they didn't prepare in advance and broaden their horizons to present the package. The other candidates did.

And, the other candidates didn’t have to deal with small town politics. Some locals have made and impression good or bad and would never get hired there. The problem is no one tells them why.

[CALFFBOU]

I can't tell you how many times I've talked to volunteers from departments they've waited for years trying for that golden opportunity to get hired in that community as a full-paid fire fighter. Then they've blown it because they didn’t test anywhere else but right there.

That is true 1000% Too many people cut themselves short by selectively testing or pumping up their sense of entitlement. I don’t feel sorry for these individuals either.

[HereToLearn]

Please correct me if I've misinterpreted some of the advice that has been offered here, but these latest posts seem to say that candidates should be taking as many tests as possible and not limiting themselves to that certain dream department?

However, there has been more than a few times where new members have shown up and asked for testing advice and they were told that they should find and focus on certain departments, with their attention on those few places. This way they can research the departments in which they are applying, which will make them much better applicants.

Now I may have just answered my own question by saying that instead of trying for that "one" dream department, recruits should be focusing on "two to three" key departments where they feel they would make a good fit? Perhaps I just misunderstood the reasoning or wording of these last few posts? No harm was intended by my questioning of some of our veteran members. You guys have been around the block more than a few times and your advice is greatly appreciated. I'm just trying to clear this up for myself or anyone else who may have read it in the same way.

[CaptBob]

Please correct me if I've misinterpreted some of the advice that has been offered here, but these latest posts seem to say that candidates should be taking as many tests as possible and not limiting themselves to that certain dream department?

However, there has been more than a few times where new members have shown up and asked for testing advice and they were told that they should find and focus on certain departments, with their attention on those few places. This way they can research the departments in which they are applying, which will make them much better applicants.

I'm just trying to clear this up for myself or anyone else who may have read it in the same way.

You ask a valid point. There are some with a different school of thought to target just a few departments. You've never heard me say that. Here's why:

Sometimes Life can be Plan B

Jon and his 9-fire technology academy buddies set out to target six departments in the northwest they wanted to work for. Their plan A would cultivate these departments and be in a position when they tested. After almost two years no one got hired or was high enough to be considered.

Then Jon read a section of this web site that encouraged candidates to test wherever they could get to.

This made since to Jon especially when he figured out that he was only able to take two tests a year. Like hands on academy and education skills if you don’t use your oral board skills you will get rusty faster than trying to throw a 35’ wood ladder or laying a line when you haven’t don’t it for awhile.

This is not taking into consideration that departments don’t always test every two years, switch to medics only, or hire only laterals.

So, non medic Jon tried to convince his 9 buddies to expand their horizons and establish plan B to test any and every where they could to keep their oral board skills at the cutting edge. None of his buddies were interested because they believed that because of their academy training and education and how they were laying the ground work it would only be a matter of time before one of the six departments on plan A would pay off.

In a short time non-medic Jon found out the more test he took the better he got at taking tests. His oral board scores started climbing and he was getting called back for chief interviews. Then BINGO! Jon gets a job offer from THE PREMIUM fire department in the southwest (yea, that one Phoenix). As he was packing to leave he offered our information that helped him get hired to his buddies. He was surprised they weren’t interested. Didn’t need it. They were still banking on plan A.

It’s now 3 years later and Jon’s dream department, THE PREMIUM department in the state of Washington (yep, that’s the one Seattle), announces their test. Guess what? Jon gets a job offer and gets to go home with his new bride, also from Washington.

Again he offers our information to his buddies. He is shocked again when they said they don’t need it.

So, how many of his 9 buddies were hired during this period of time? None, zip, nada.

Sometimes life can be plan B. The proof is in the badge!

"Nothing counts 'til you get the badge . . . Nothing"

[secmas12]

I think my original post might have been misinterpreted a bit. Just to clarify:

- No one is "whining"
- I don't feel "entitled" to anything.
- I don't "know I want the job more"

By no means did I mean to suggest that I should get the job simply because I only had to compete against 30-40 other candidates instead of 400.

I do know that this testing process only takes the top 75 written scores on to the next phase. I agree that I need to do my part and make it into the top 75 by studying and working hard. However, aren't there some excellent candidates who really feel this dept. is a good fit for them that won't make the top 75 because the majority of the top 75 are just practicing?

[FireEeyore]

Secmas you really think that most of the top 75 candidates at any test are just practicing?

Are you kidding me?

Read over this a few times "Those of us who really want to work there want to have a good shot at getting a position!"

You are honestly saying ( before you have even taken the test) that the majority of people applying and testing don't really even want to work there?!

You are trying to come up with excuses in advance as to why you won't get picked and " joe" will.



...

[ashncole]

[QUOTE=AirForceFire24;1037006]Im quite at a loss at the statement made.

Ashncole....you just said you're frustrated when you show up and see a bunch of out-of-staters for a test, but then said you're going to test for a job just to practice...i dont see where you're any better than them.

I think you are misunderstood Airforce. The test I have taken I show up with a bunch of out of towners who are just taking the test to take it. If they move on to an interview they take it If they get an offer they consider it. Thats the competition. I am not saying I am better than them but Im saying If you want a job in any dept. You better expect to see out of towners applying whether you like it or not. If someone is qualified for the dept. then beat out the out of staters by doing what they do. Study and practice tests You arent better than anyone if you limit yourself to one dept. and not study in hopes that out of towners dont show up. I have some depts I really want to work for but in order for that oppurtunity I've got to try as hard as I can If that means choosing between sitting on the couch all weekend or traveling to a test. I can tell you that I've tried harder than the person whining that some out of towner is stealing their job, well man up and get on the bandwagon If you want it bad enough stop wasting your time asking others to not test and work your tail off just like they are. Dedicate yourself to getting the job and you will find you deserve the job even in your hometown just as bad as an out of towner. I wish no out of towners would show up in my town, but its the way it is so Ill do what it takes to earn it. If it takes testing in a crap hole city or a city with thousands testing so that I can prepare for my hometown Ill be there. I guess I got to try harder than the competition. The other alternative is cry about someone testing in the dept. I want. I may not be better than everyone else but at least Im trying to deserve it by actually dedicationg some time in improving my test scores. Who knows maybe Ill show up and love the crap hole town I thought would suck. But I cant get an oppurtunity if I sit on the couch that weekend because some guy is asking me not to try and improve my chances. Whaaa

[BackStepNBackWards]

I got you ash...most of my question were geared towards secmas. I get and agree exactly where ur coming from. You just have to go out there and better yourself to be above the competition. plain and simple. Scores are getting higher. More and mor people are wanting to become firefighters, whatever there reasons be. Nothing helps more than practice and hard work. period

[CaptBob]

A lot of candidates have convinced themselves by the four inched between their ears that just around the corner on that next test they’ve going to get their badge.

I hear this from candidates all the time:

I know I have what it takes to be a firefighter!

Yea, maybe you do but the panel doesn’t. What are you going to say in your oral board that is going to stun the panel into giving you the job over the other candidates?

"Captain Bob" www.eatstress.com

[FFighterRob]

You never know when you are going to hit the lottery. If you apply for all of the tests you can, you are not only going to be getting better at your test taking, but may get into one of those great, “once in a lifetime” tests. It would be like a pro golfer picking the golf tournament that Tiger Woods isn't at.


A few years back Las Vegas and North Las Vegas held a test. A large portion of the people who had historically taken those tests came for southern California. It turned out that a filing date or part of the test was the same as one of the very desirable departments in the L.A. area. Less than a few hundred went to the orals and they were looking to hire over 50 between the two.

I get a call a month at least from a person that thought he had a job. He worked for the department in some capacity, was known to all, and was told, “You got this in the bag”, by everyone. Then some “dark horse” from out of town comes in and has the best oral the department has ever heard, and the local guy is not selected.

One of these guys said he asked the chief what happened and he was told, “We wanted to give you the job, but you should have seen this guy, there was no way we could give it to you”. He said that because he was still a volunteer there he had to work with this new guy. He asked him how he did so well. I asked what the guy said and he told me, “That’s how I got your number”

Don’t be fooled there is no substitute for being prepared. If you know everyone, work there, are all but guaranteed the job by everyone, if you are not prepared you can have your dream job taken away just as easily.

A number of people I have worked with in this kind of a situation have some huge mistakes in their presentations. When I point them out, they say, but I have done a lot of mock interviews with the professional guys and they said I am good to go. There are a lot of people out there that feel if they tell you that you are great you will gain confidence and do great. Confidence is a good thing and will definitely help you interview. But it won’t help if your answers aren’t correct. As much as these guys want to help, they may not know what the correct answers are. People that have been out of the testing environment may not have the right take on questions about gender, ethnicity, handling conflicting orders, lying, cheating, and stealing. Mock interviews are great, but make sure you are getting the best advice.

Good Luck, Capt Rob
www.myfireinterview.com
nrtc@sonic.net
(707)869-1330

[ntrjms]

This post is kind of frustrating. Those of us who are dreaming about actually getting hired by this department are now going to be diluted into yet another candidate pool.

Please don't apply unless you actually know about the department, value the opportunity, and would accept it if offered. Those of us who really want to work there want to have a good shot at getting a position!

I understand the posters motivation, but I've got a lot riding on this job opening. I know of a group of dedicated volunteer ff's at a local department that are planning on applying and would be a great fit for Cheyenne.

You've got to be kidding me. Why don't you take that opinion to the Chief and see if he agrees with you. Unbelievable.

Your attitude that "you" know what's best for the department should seriously be re-evluated.