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  1. #1
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    Default AFG computer scoring

    Any tips to aid small rural fire dept. with computer scoring in the AFG grant?
    Many thanks


  2. #2
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    There is only one real "tip" for the computer scoring - honesty! Your "numbers" speak for themselves. Make sure that they are accurate, backed-up, and that you have them all included. Look at current census info, talk to you county or regional planning commission to see if they have anythig ore current, count EVERYTHING! Every alarm, every injury, near misses, save junk gear and equipment to count, instead of just tossing it, etc.

    Best of luck getting your app to peer review!
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

  3. #3
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    We could probably use a bit more info. What kind of project, etc.

    The best tip I can give you is to get out to a seminar, if you can find one nearby. Kurt and Brian both do a good job with their seminars and you'll learn a lot. Peruse these forums, as well.

  4. #4
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    We are trying for a tanker/tender to replace our 1962 jeep Gov. tanker/converted dump truck. We did manage a brush truck on a 2005 grant but since we cannot get by the scoring yet nothing has changed. We can't explain our needs if we can't get to the narrative.

  5. #5
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    It may be tough to get a second vehicle, with a "new" 2005, if the call volume, area served, and/or population served don't justify.
    2008 alarms? Area (square miles) protected? Current population?
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

  6. #6
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    Wink Smaller single item projects

    Quote Originally Posted by penman View Post
    Any tips to aid small rural fire dept. with computer scoring in the AFG grant?
    Many thanks
    Since I went to Brian's seminar two years ago, my small rural dept. has applied for single low cost projects. We did $24K for LDH in 07 and $18K for a skid unit in 08. We funded in early rounds both years. It took us 3 years prior to fund a $70K project for PPE, SCBA, and a TIC as a laundry list 03 (DJ), 05 (DJ) and finally got it in 06 in a late round.

    Since a computer can only score you based on your numbers (call volume, population, sq. miles) and check boxes you select, I would try and pick one project that is a top priority for AFG and one in which you have the oldest and worst condition items. Don't ask for a million dollars if you really only need $30K. The average AFG award is about $80,000. I would suggest you pick a project that runs about $20K for example. Lowering your project cost is the only way you can alter your cost benefit. If you ask for 4* less money, your cost benefit gets better by a factor of 4, simply by asking for 4* less money then everyone else. For small dept's to compete with high population, high call volume dept's you have to pick the best single project for your dept.

    Start with AFG priority 1, PPE. If you don't need PPE, go to SCBA. Next, try a TIC, LDH, skid unit, communication, washer/extractor, etc. As BC79er taught me, it is better to fund one item every year then try and fund 4 or 5 items all at once and never get anything. Next year, $7500 for an NFPA compliant SCBA fill station.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the good ideas. We are putting in for an SCBAs, ours are pre '87. Rural depts. use tanker shuttles at most fires and the ones we have were not designed for water movement and they take two or three men at a fill site. Not good when you only have two or three show up for a fire during the day. We a trying for a vacuum t/t which will be much safer for the drivers and only need one person, the driver, to self fill. Catch for most small depts; we have fewer fires but when they occur we have antiquated and dangerous equipment to fight them. Fighting41NY your correct on keeping it, $$, small but that works best when your basic equipment is safe and suitable for your need. We are asking just for the basics and I'm ranting. Thanks again.
    Ed

  8. #8
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    Penman, shoot me an e-mail djc64@juno.com and I will get you an SCBA narrative. If you do it right that should be easy to fund. Apparatus is a whole different ballgame, and like the other people have said, it depends on call volume, population, average vehicle age, how much you are asking for, etc. One thing that Kurt taught me in regards to vehicle grants is to think functional, not parade, and rather than ask for a 95% match ask for an 80% match. This makes your project more cost effective and more appealing to reviewers.

    We also have worked on smaller projects each year rather than trying to accomplish everything with one grant. We got PPE in 2003, exhaust system in 2006, TIC in 2007, and SCBA/turnout gear washer in 2008. We could have incorporated TIC, PPE, SCBA into one project, but the cost would have been very high for our small department with small population and call volume. Thus our cost/benefit would have been harder to justify and our grant would be less competitive. Sometimes less is more.

  9. #9
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    If your not getting past the computer, I would imagine you're either too short on runs or your fleet's too new. I know a lot of departments that are getting into being short on runs, some of which has been mistakes and some of it placing calls like flue fires under a service call category instead of as a structure fire. Same thing with grass fires.

    I'm dealing with the latter. With only 4 trucks (5 this year, as we procured an FPP brush truck) last year, we had an average fleet age of like 8 years because of our two grant trucks and our creativeness with another engine (bought it wrecked from insurance and rebuilt it ourselves, saved TONS of money).

  10. #10
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    Wink I feel your pain, but I think something is still better then nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by penman View Post
    Thanks for the good ideas. We are putting in for an SCBAs, ours are pre '87. Rural depts. use tanker shuttles at most fires and the ones we have were not designed for water movement and they take two or three men at a fill site. Not good when you only have two or three show up for a fire during the day. We a trying for a vacuum t/t which will be much safer for the drivers and only need one person, the driver, to self fill. Catch for most small depts; we have fewer fires but when they occur we have antiquated and dangerous equipment to fight them. Fighting41NY your correct on keeping it, $$, small but that works best when your basic equipment is safe and suitable for your need. We are asking just for the basics and I'm ranting. Thanks again.
    Ed
    Example, for your SCBA application, you can ask for an SCBA for each seated position on your apparatus. Maybe that is 12? You can also ask for an extra bottle, an extra mask etc. up to $5250 per pack I believe is the maximum allowed. Maybe if you are a small dept., you really only need 8 packs and you can get by without the extra bottles. Bottles are about $700 a piece.
    For calculations, I'll use 10 calls per year and 2,000 people.

    Ex.
    12 packs *$5,250 = $63,000 Project Cost
    8 packs *$4,500 = $36,000 Project Cost

    Cost Per Use
    Project cost/(average call volume X useful service life)
    $63,000/(10*15) = $420
    $36,000/(10*15) = $240

    Cost Per Person Per Use
    Project cost/(population x useful service life)
    $63,000/(2,000*15)= $2.10
    $36,000/(2,000*15) = $1.20

    Just by a little give and take, you just went from a computer DJ to getting 8 packs or at least doubled your odds to get closer to the competitive range to make peer review. Hopefully, I didn't screw-up the formula's, just trying to use some numbers to show how us little guys can compete with the big dogs by simply changing the project cost or scope slightly.

  11. #11
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    Catch22 your right 30 runs or so mostly EMS with a few chimney/ car fires/ wildfires thrown in. For kicks I average our trucks age, 26.4 years, plenty of room for improvement.
    Fighting41NY like your ideas. I will definitely keep it down$$.
    Thanks Ed

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