1. #1
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    Default IAFF joing good or bad?

    i have been working for a small town fire department that has been around along time and has been apart of the union...a long time ago and not for long at all...in fact several years ago the IAFF came down and hung out the station all day and tried to get everybody on board but the old crustys didnt want them here saying and i quote "The have never done anything good for us, they were here along time ago and didnt do anything for us because we are to small of a department and they didnt care about us." sounds dumb but im not going to second guess the old crustys...now we are a lot younger department now then they were back then...all im asking is for the goods and bads and if it would be a good idea to get some guys together and have IAFF come back or not...

    Thanks,
    Shrek

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    In general, check out the benefits here: http://www.iaff.org/union/index.html

    Anyone who has ever worked a day in their life knows it is hard to win an argument with someone who can fire you. Yet, when you are a member of the IAFF, you have an advocate with experience in labor/management disputes.

    In addition to issues you may encounter as an individual, the IAFF works at the Local, State, and National level to support legislation that will protect your job and expand your compensation. And, the IAFF works to oppose all legislation or changes in the fire service, locally or nationwide, that will negatively impact your working conditions.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    There will be pros and cons either way you go. There have been cases where there are firefighters working today because of the IAFF. There was a case recently won here in WI, as well as a dept in FL (the FD was replaced with a private contractor Wackenhut, and because of IAFF efforts, those FF's are back on the job). My friend works for a FD that just unionized and he is happy that they did, it gives them a bit more bargaining power and can protect jobs, especially in this economic climate today.


    As for those with the "The have never done anything good for us" type of folks, tend to also be the same type of people who just sit around and collect a check. As with anything, in order to be effective you have to have participation. Sitting back and just hoping to reap the benefits means nothing. We have current members that never attend union meetings and then gripe after a decision is made. I like to tell them they can always go to a meeting, but the usual response is grumbling. A little effort and participation is needed, you may never get everyone 100% involved, but if there is an intrest, it should be something to check out. Don't let ****y attitudes stop you from looking.
    The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.

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    those "****y attitudes" have cause a lot of grumpiness and bad decisions in the history of this department from what i can tell...im for sure going to try to get IAFF to come down and talk to us and see what we can do...

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    IAFF- One ofthe BEST investments you can make in your career!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    IAFF- One ofthe BEST investments you can make in your career!
    Don't agree with Bou often, but I will STRONGLY agree with this post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    IAFF- One ofthe BEST investments you can make in your career!
    One of the best.. if not the best!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by MassFireGuy View Post
    Don't agree with Bou often, but I will STRONGLY agree with this post.
    Hmmmm....Well Obama did say change was coming.

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    Join my brother. The IAFF will take care of you and they have a wealth of resources that you can use. Will help at contract time.

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    Thumbs up 27 year member

    Join the IAFF, I have been a proud member for 27 years and have never regeted paying my dues for one second.
    Benefits?
    Without the IAFF we would not have...
    Overtime FLSA
    SCBA per man
    Turn Out Gear that protects us
    Infulence on NFPA Standards that protect us
    56 hour work week (kelly type schedules) (we work 48-96 love it)
    AFG grants
    SAFER grants
    Legal council help
    Defined pension plans
    Sick leave
    Vacation
    Retirement rules
    The list if endless - Our union is great because the leadership in the international came from the field - line firefighters run our international thus the first hand knowledge of the job. This is unlike a lot of employee groups.

    IAFF Local 1696 Salt Lake County Firefighters
    Stay Safe jack
    Godspeed-Stay Safe.jack

    25 Year Career Union Firefighter
    Local 1696
    ME115 - IACOJ

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    dchomen- My best buddy works at Orem City and they are convined that the union is bad business. I wish you could run down there and fill them in.

    As for the OP of the thread- I dont know if it was mentioned, but the IAFF has a "Guardian Fund" that protects its members. If a member needs help with a legal matter, the IAFF will evaluate it and support you as needed.

    Again- Joining the IAFF is cheap insurance and a true brotherhood.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 02-23-2009 at 08:51 PM.

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    It's like this. Anyone who is in the IAFF will swear by it. Then again, why would you complain about being in an organization you don't like.

    Ask your self this. Our your work conditions OK now? Do you have problems? Do you need someone to negotiate for you? With today's labor laws the need for a Union is very much diminished.

    When Unions try to negotiate a wage and benefit package for you they look at what other similar jobs are paying in the same area. They then try to get what everyone else is getting.

    People in non-Union shops are more likely to change jobs. The more talented and productive workers will find and get better jobs, at times working for the competition. If a company wants to succeed they need to offer a competitive wage and benefit package, otherwise, they end up with workers who can't jobs anywhere else. So contrary to popular Union belief, there is a reason a company will pay a better wage. In fact, in the last Union job I had we were actually getting a lower wage than the other places in the area. In this case, the Union screwed the workers. The only thing a Union has ever done for me is take dues from my paycheck so the stewards and union bosses could go to a monthly night out on the workers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It's like this. Anyone who is in the IAFF will swear by it. Then again, why would you complain about being in an organization you don't like.

    Ask your self this. Our your work conditions OK now? Do you have problems? Do you need someone to negotiate for you? With today's labor laws the need for a Union is very much diminished.

    When Unions try to negotiate a wage and benefit package for you they look at what other similar jobs are paying in the same area. They then try to get what everyone else is getting.

    People in non-Union shops are more likely to change jobs. The more talented and productive workers will find and get better jobs, at times working for the competition. If a company wants to succeed they need to offer a competitive wage and benefit package, otherwise, they end up with workers who can't jobs anywhere else. So contrary to popular Union belief, there is a reason a company will pay a better wage. In fact, in the last Union job I had we were actually getting a lower wage than the other places in the area. In this case, the Union screwed the workers. The only thing a Union has ever done for me is take dues from my paycheck so the stewards and union bosses could go to a monthly night out on the workers.
    Spoken like a person who has no clue about the IAFF or working as a public servant for a local level municipality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dchomen View Post
    Join the IAFF, I have been a proud member for 27 years and have never regretted paying my dues for one second.
    Benefits?
    Without the IAFF we would not have...
    Overtime FLSA
    SCBA per man
    Turn Out Gear that protects us
    Influence on NFPA Standards that protect us
    56 hour work week (kelly type schedules) (we work 48-96 love it)
    AFG grants
    SAFER grants
    Legal council help
    Defined pension plans
    Sick leave
    Vacation
    Retirement rules
    The list if endless - Our union is great because the leadership in the international came from the field - line firefighters run our international thus the first hand knowledge of the job. This is unlike a lot of employee groups.

    IAFF Local 1696 Salt Lake County Firefighters
    Stay Safe jack
    That's stretching things a bit. To imply that Sick & Vacation leave, legal council, and retirement rules would not exist in the absence of the IAFF, is blatantly false.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Just the success of the Guardian Program is enough to warrant membership.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    That's stretching things a bit. To imply that Sick & Vacation leave, legal council, and retirement rules would not exist in the absence of the IAFF, is blatantly false.
    I don't think these rules would not exist, but there is a benefit in this area. Many of the rules would not exist in their current form without the IAFF. I can personally say that my retirement benefits are directly related to my union's negotiating. Also we've had issues in the past where the city implemented a policy that was not what the current laws had in mind. Sure it was wrong. Sure we won and it didn't matter that we were union or not. However, if we weren't union who was going to fight? How? With what money? Do you have a labor lawyer in your rolodex? Do you know exactly what to do if you have a problem? I don't. But I have people who do.
    I may speak gibberish, but I don't talk s***! -- Dropkick Murphys

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokker416 View Post
    I don't think these rules would not exist, but there is a benefit in this area. Many of the rules would not exist in their current form without the IAFF. I can personally say that my retirement benefits are directly related to my union's negotiating. Also we've had issues in the past where the city implemented a policy that was not what the current laws had in mind. Sure it was wrong. Sure we won and it didn't matter that we were union or not. However, if we weren't union who was going to fight? How? With what money? Do you have a labor lawyer in your rolodex? Do you know exactly what to do if you have a problem? I don't. But I have people who do.
    You make excellent points. And yes, I do have a lawyer in my Rolodex. Whether or not I can afford to pay his fee is another issue. So I best make sure I'm in the right before I pursue litigation.

    And things are different in your State of Florida. Your State Constitution gives public safety workers the right to collective bargain. My State explicitly prohibits PS workers from collective bargaining. So while the IAFF carries a big stick in Florida, they don't wield such power in NC.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    You make excellent points. And yes, I do have a lawyer in my Rolodex. Whether or not I can afford to pay his fee is another issue. So I best make sure I'm in the right before I pursue litigation.

    And things are different in your State of Florida. Your State Constitution gives public safety workers the right to collective bargain. My State explicitly prohibits PS workers from collective bargaining. So while the IAFF carries a big stick in Florida, they don't wield such power in NC.
    Same with me in KY. Our local is more of a guys club than a union. Our employer is 100% against collective bargaining and only a state or federal mandate will change that.

    Mike

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    Default Orem Fire

    Your right Orem City has them running scared for years. The biggest problem is they are a public safety department, the cops have the public safety director as their head and the fire department has a fire chief that is a department head not a fire chief in the traditional sense. He answers to the Public Safety Director.
    They are however finally adding personel to the department but some of their work rules are draconian.
    It was said that it is blantently false that the IAFF was responsible for sick leave vacation but I do beg to differ. The early days of the IAFF, they worked 28 days with 2 or 3 days off, no sick leave, no vacation and very few benefits, thus the rise of benefit associations.
    It is true that most blue collar workers had the same plight but the union movement was to force and encourage change for the better.
    I would suggest that all read a little history and realize that those who came before us faught for what we take for granted. We all, union and nonunion alike owe them our thanks and respect.
    Stay safe brothers and sisters, jack.
    Last edited by dchomen; 02-22-2009 at 11:59 PM.
    Godspeed-Stay Safe.jack

    25 Year Career Union Firefighter
    Local 1696
    ME115 - IACOJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Just the success of the Guardian Program is enough to warrant membership.
    Thank you for the backing brother!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It's like this. Anyone who is in the IAFF will swear by it. Then again, why would you complain about being in an organization you don't like.

    Ask your self this. Our your work conditions OK now? Do you have problems? Do you need someone to negotiate for you? With today's labor laws the need for a Union is very much diminished.

    When Unions try to negotiate a wage and benefit package for you they look at what other similar jobs are paying in the same area. They then try to get what everyone else is getting.

    People in non-Union shops are more likely to change jobs. The more talented and productive workers will find and get better jobs, at times working for the competition. If a company wants to succeed they need to offer a competitive wage and benefit package, otherwise, they end up with workers who can't jobs anywhere else. So contrary to popular Union belief, there is a reason a company will pay a better wage. In fact, in the last Union job I had we were actually getting a lower wage than the other places in the area. In this case, the Union screwed the workers. The only thing a Union has ever done for me is take dues from my paycheck so the stewards and union bosses could go to a monthly night out on the workers.
    You and LA's generalized union statements show your true ignorance.

    First off all unions are not created equal. Generally ALL unions have the same goals in mind however the amount of financial backing and strength of the members has a lot to do with their success.

    All states have different bargaining laws and the amount of pull varies depending on your state. However, unions in general, especially the IAFF will benefit you, your family, your department, and the citizens you serve.

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    I obviously haven't chimed in on this ..... so please keep my name out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I obviously haven't chimed in on this ..... so please keep my name out of it.
    Too 'effin bad. You don't want your name dragged into something? You shouldn't have spouted off your verbal diarrhea on the subject, even if it was in another thread. You post it, it's fair game. Don't want your name brought up, then don't post!
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    listen boys i havent been on here for long but i have slowly started keep my self out of firehouse all together simply for the fact that hardly anyone on here can get along...i dont care where you are from or even for that matter who you are...i just simply asked a question expecting a simple answer...someones opinion or idea is all i wanted not a b!tch fest between a bunch of guys that think they have bigger balls than the other one...chill out or dont even comment...geez
    The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation and in no way meant to harm the reputation and name of said dept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacook21 View Post
    listen boys i havent been on here for long but i have slowly started keep my self out of firehouse all together simply for the fact that hardly anyone on here can get along...i dont care where you are from or even for that matter who you are...i just simply asked a question expecting a simple answer...someones opinion or idea is all i wanted not a b!tch fest between a bunch of guys that think they have bigger balls than the other one...chill out or dont even comment...geez
    Look bud, you put a pretty hot topic out there (spelled incorrectly BTW). I understand your new found frustration with the forum, but there is little gray area when it comes to being pro versus anti Union. Perhaps you should have taken a swing at something less volatile, like religion or abortion.

    As for my opinion on being in the Union, I'm biased. Raised in a Union family where my dad was Union president for Western Airlines for 15 straight years. Growing up my dad gave me some unique perspectives on employee/employer relations. While a strong Union man, he also had some unique things to say about "problem" employees. One favorite that I didn't understand until I was older was "Unions can make shi* float!" I always thought he meant Union boat workers.

    Proud Charter Member of the IAFF-MG

    FG
    Last edited by Firegod343; 02-24-2009 at 10:37 PM.
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