1. #1
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    Default Brush truck tips over- You must see this video

    This appears to be new. I dont want to Monday morning QB the video, but I question their postion in relation to the tactic. In the beginning of the video it looks like they might be protecting the structure to the right.

    Check it out-

    www.liveleak.com/view?i=d0f_1235132644

    Three Abilene firefighters were treated at Hendrick Medical Center on Wednesday afternoon after the brush truck they were using to fight a grass fire tipped over on an embankment along railroad tracks near North 13th and Almond streets.

    The firefighters involved in the incident were Lt. Guy Turner, a 26-year veteran of the Abilene Fire Department, firefighter David Standard, also a 26-year vet More..eran, and firefighter Scott Stack, who has almost two years of service.

    One of the injured firefighters was driving the brush truck, and the other two were riding in the back, spraying water on hot spots.

    One firefighter was trapped for a short time, said Abilene Fire Lt. Greg Goettsch.

    Two had been released from the hospital by 8 p.m. Wednesday, and the third was expected to be released by the end of the day.

    All were treated for minor injuries that likely include plenty of bruises and scratches, Goettsch said.

    “It’s good news. It’s pretty dangerous when something like that happens,” Goettsch said. “It’s a rarity. Our guys are really good at what they do.”

    Old railroad ties burning along the tracks emitted thick plumes of black smoke, making it difficult for the firefighters to see into a deep, uneven ditch, Goettsch said.

    That, coupled with the weight of the water the truck was carrying, caused the truck to lose balance and tip over. The trucks carry as much as 1,000 gallons of water, Goettsch said.

    Fire officials, Fire Department mechanics, Abilene police officers and city risk management personnel were called to the scene.

    Two bulldozers from nearby Bontke Brothers Construction helped clear the area, and a large wrecker worked for some time to set the brush truck right.

    The truck was badly dented and had smashed lights and side-view mirrors.

    The well above the right front wheel was cracked, but the truck largely appeared to be in good condition.

    Wednesday’s accident is the first Goettsch can remember in the department in at least 20 years.

    There have been some stories of rollover incidents in the ’50s and ’60s passed around by firefighters, but nothing recently, he said.

    The grass fire was quickly contained and did not involve any structures or vehicles.

    Fire officials believe the fire, and a second, smaller grass fire near North 10th Street and Treadaway Boulevard, may have been caused by a passing train but are not certain, Goettsch said.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 02-20-2009 at 01:37 PM.

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    i want to laugh but im not sure i should
    ~Big O~

    Tankers have wheels and carry water, Tenders are breaded and served with BBQ sauce

    (if you don't believe me Google it)

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    Not the way I'd have attacked the problem but it's not my problem. I prefer to DRIVE rather than back whenever possible.What's with the structural gear on a wildfire? Is that common in the area? T.C.

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    is that common in many areas to ride on the rig while working a veg fire? never seen that before in the west, never really knew anyone fought grass fires that way, interesting.

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    Thats one reason you dont ride on the truck while its moving, use a backer and whenever possible drive forward not back up.
    "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all"

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    Glad to hear the Firefighters are alright.

    We(The Fire Service) have taken the tailboards off our rigs due to injuries and make everyone ride to the fire in an enclosed cab. So how can riding in the back or on the front bumper be considered a safe fire fighting tactic for grass fires?
    Fight fire aggrressively having provided for Safety first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Not the way I'd have attacked the problem but it's not my problem. I prefer to DRIVE rather than back whenever possible.What's with the structural gear on a wildfire? Is that common in the area? T.C.
    some departments can't afford both structural and wildland gear for their personnel....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrivers09 View Post
    some departments can't afford both structural and wildland gear for their personnel....
    Weak arguement.

    Then manage your department funds better or write a grant. There is no excuse for using the wrong tool for the job.

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    This is one reason why riding on the outside of an apparatus is forbidden by NFPA 1500.
    "...When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you." Isaiah 43:2

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    Wow... thats all I can say... Wow
    “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
    —John 14:6

    "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
    —Romans 3:23

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    Why in God's name would you put a firefighter on the back/side/front/top/whatever of a moving vehicle????? If you want to pump and roll, attach a 50' length to the discharge gate. For whatever reason, that behaviour is just unacceptable. I can't imagine having to explain to someone why we killed their husband/wife/son/daughter for a grass fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    Weak arguement.

    Then manage your department funds better or write a grant. There is no excuse for using the wrong tool for the job.
    Bou, you are coming off sounding like an arrogant *** here. Sorry but you are simply living in a dream world. Not every FD has the funds to buy wildland gear and frankly it is impractical to waste money on gear that in my volly FD's case would get used maybe 5 times a year. We have far more urgent things than that to buy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Bou, you are coming off sounding like an arrogant *** here. Sorry but you are simply living in a dream world. Not every FD has the funds to buy wildland gear and frankly it is impractical to waste money on gear that in my volly FD's case would get used maybe 5 times a year. We have far more urgent things than that to buy.
    1. I didnt bring up the issue of using structure gear on a veg fire. But it was a point worth bringing up.

    2. There is always going to be a means to an end. If an agency goes to veg. fires, they need veg gear. Have a bake sale, wash cars or get a grant. Doesnt matter, just do it.

    3. Are you speaking for this particular department or yours? Dont paint everyone with such a broad brush.

    Coming off like an arrogant ***? Why- because I said use the right tool for the right job? Far more important things to buy? Dude are freaking joking here? So what is more important than your people's health and safety? Going to a veg. fire in structure gear means they are going to overheat and get sick or maybe even killed.

    FyredUp- I am going to caution you, please before you ever call me out in this forum again, now what the hell your taking about. Use the right gear for the job. There is no excuse for such action and getting your people hurt like in this video. They got lucky no one was killed.

    Lastly, I was just answering the member's question of-
    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    What's with the structural gear on a wildfire? Is that common in the area? T.C.



    Bou
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 02-23-2009 at 04:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    1. I didnt bring up the issue of using structure gear on a veg fire. But it was a point worth bringing up.

    No, you didn't bring it up. But you did make a comment that is seriously lacking in any understanding of the topic outside of your little corner of the world. It is very common in my area for FD's to use their structural gear for brush fires. If you understood that in our area every brush fire doesn't burn thousands of acres and dozens of homes it makes complete sense to do what we do. Heck the last few brush fires I was to didn't burn ten acres and most were under an acre.

    2. There is always going to be a means to an end. If an agency goes to veg. fires, they need veg gear. Have a bake sale, wash cars or get a grant. Doesnt matter, just do it.

    Brilliant. And if you are doing those things already, like some small volly FD's I know simply to keep the doors open then what? Again know of what you speak before broad stroking everyone.

    3. Are you speaking for this particular department or yours? Dont paint everyone with such a broad brush.

    My volly FD has enough brush coats for an attack crew. We use our bunker pants and leather boots. Again we are not talking about project fires here. Most are small and involve perimeter work and mop up that takes under an hour. You broad brushed everyone with your buy it noiw no matter what it takes nonsense.

    Coming off like an arrogant ***? Why- because I said use the right tool for the right job? Far more important things to buy? Dude are freaking joking here? So what is more important than your people's health and safety? Going to a veg. fire in structure gear means they are going to overheat and get sick or maybe even killed.

    Again you assume that every brush fore every where turns into your project fires. Sorry no. I have been a volly in this rural area for over 30 years and been involved in only one fire that burned over 20 acres. It isn't California where you burn the state down 2 or 3 times a year with brush fires. Funny, in that same 30 years we had 1 guy go down from heat exhaustion...How many have you had go down from it?

    FyredUp- I am going to caution you, please before you ever call me out in this forum again, now what the hell your taking about. Use the right gear for the job. There is no excuse for such action and getting your people hurt like in this video. They got lucky no one was killed.

    I know exactly what I am talking about in my area. And is this supposed to scare me? What are you gonna do rat me out to the moderators? Tell your mom? Sick Arnold on me? Grow up. If the department has the money then I agree on buying the wildland gear...but there are more important priorities than gear for 5 or so less than 10 acre brush fires a year.


    Bou
    You sure like to challenge others but seem put out when others challenge you. Develop a thicker skin or put me on ignore either way you didn't impress me with your threat.

    Have a nice day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    You sure like to challenge others but seem put out when others challenge you. Develop a thicker skin or put me on ignore either way you didn't impress me with your threat.

    Have a nice day.

    Wow man, your button sure got pushed. I was just answering/agreeing with the other member who questined the use of structure gear on veg. fires.

    Sorry my answer and opinion didnt fit in with you particular FD's situation. But over all, we, as the fire service should try to use the right tool for the jobs. We have small veg. fires here too in CA and still use the veg gear when possible. Again- If this was a common incident in your area, write a grant for the gear, geez.

    As for a threat, Moderators and thin skin- relax man. Its just a conversation. There was no threat made, I just said get your head and facts together before you call someone out like you did. I dont know why you got so butt-hurt in post #12. Your FD's situation was not challenged and no one said what you guy need to do. Why you took it so personal? Hell, I didnt even bring the subject up of PPE, get off of my back.

    Again- USE THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB. Had this been done, we wouldnt be here talking about this vehicle roll-over accident on some train tracks wearing the wrong gear.

    Bou

    Edit add in- In video mark #25, it looks like one member is wearing a brush coat. Props to him.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 02-23-2009 at 12:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Not the way I'd have attacked the problem but it's not my problem. I prefer to DRIVE rather than back whenever possible.What's with the structural gear on a wildfire? Is that common in the area? T.C.
    First off,glad they got out all right.That must have been a leemer.
    I don't know why they were backing in.I would say that maybe that was the only way in but then,why not drive forward as you thought and see what you are getting into?Could be an inexperienced driver,I dunno.
    Lot of rural departments have to make do with whatever money they have to buy gear.As a result you see departments with full PPE for everyone and four or five sets of actual wildland fire gear.
    Then again,it could have been a winter day,as evidenced by the lack of leaves on the trees.It gets cold in Texas,too and the guys could have been wearing their PPEs for the warmth.

    Like I said,lots of departments have to live on whatever money they can beg or borrow if their county doesn't pay for fire protection.It sucks that ANY department would have to work that way and I really feel for them.
    Last edited by doughesson; 02-23-2009 at 01:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    Like I said,lots of departments have to live on whatever money they can beg or borrow if their county doesn't pay for fire protection.
    Yes, we all know this. Money is tight every where.

    But then if they have/had the funds and means to buy this specialized uni-mog type of equipment for the brush, then they should be able to outfit their people as well.

    Again- Anything is possilbe today- Grants, donations, car wash, whatever.

    And Again, I didnt even bring up the PPE issue, but it was a good point.

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    Ok. First of, Abilene Fire Department has enough money to buy brush gear.

    Secondly, there is NO reason to be riding on the brush truck like that.

    Even on my poor department, I am not going to risk a 2k set of turnouts on a brush fire. Wildland shirts, boots, and a pair of jeans do a wonderful job.

    (along with gloves, helmet, etc)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    1. I didnt bring up the issue of using structure gear on a veg fire. But it was a point worth bringing up.

    2. There is always going to be a means to an end. If an agency goes to veg. fires, they need veg gear. Have a bake sale, wash cars or get a grant. Doesnt matter, just do it.

    3. Are you speaking for this particular department or yours? Dont paint everyone with such a broad brush.

    Coming off like an arrogant ***? Why- because I said use the right tool for the right job? Far more important things to buy? Dude are freaking joking here? So what is more important than your people's health and safety? Going to a veg. fire in structure gear means they are going to overheat and get sick or maybe even killed.

    FyredUp- I am going to caution you, please before you ever call me out in this forum again, now what the hell your taking about. Use the right gear for the job. There is no excuse for such action and getting your people hurt like in this video. They got lucky no one was killed.

    Lastly, I was just answering the member's question of-





    Bou
    LMAO!!! CALFF When do you ever go to fires?? You are always on this forum polluting in your two cents about EVERYTHING? How does one gain such "self proclaimed experience" of the job when most of your time is behind a computer on this forum.

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    http://bigcountryhomepage.com/conten...xt/?cid=105792
    here is a better story on the story
    Puttin the wet stuff on the red stuff!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingofdahill View Post
    LMAO!!! CALFF When do you ever go to fires?? You are always on this forum polluting in your two cents about EVERYTHING? How does one gain such "self proclaimed experience" of the job when most of your time is behind a computer on this forum.
    What does this have to do with the truck tipping over on train tracks?

    Wow, if you cant debate, attack the person, right? Considering right now, its off season for veg fires, I like the rest of the state isnt seeing much. The rain might be a factor too.

    But- I bet I've seen more historical wildland action than you. And can back that statement up.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 02-23-2009 at 03:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    Wow man, your button sure got pushed. I was just answering/agreeing with the other member who questined the use of structure gear on veg. fires.

    Sorry my answer and opinion didnt fit in with you particular FD's situation. But over all, we, as the fire service should try to use the right tool for the jobs. We have small veg. fires here too in CA and still use the veg gear when possible. Again- If this was a common incident in your area, write a grant for the gear, geez.

    As for a threat, Moderators and thin skin- relax man. Its just a conversation. There was no threat made, I just said get your head and facts together before you call someone out like you did. I dont know why you got so butt-hurt in post #12. Your FD's situation was not challenged and no one said what you guy need to do. Why you took it so personal? Hell, I didnt even bring the subject up of PPE, get off of my back.

    Again- USE THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB. Had this been done, we wouldnt be here talking about this vehicle roll-over accident on some train tracks wearing the wrong gear.

    Bou

    Edit add in- In video mark #25, it looks like one member is wearing a brush coat. Props to him.
    You are so totally clueless as to have reduced yourself to little more than comic relief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    You are so totally clueless as to have reduced yourself to little more than comic relief.
    Rather than resorting to insults, have you considered highlighting the points you want to support? I am so curious as to why you want to argue a sub-topic that I didnt even bring up in the first place?

    Bou
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 02-23-2009 at 08:07 PM.

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    Doug,the question was prompted,in part,by the two responders with the back board.One appers to be in wildland gear,one in structural. Personally,we don't want our personnel wearing their structure gear on wildfire for the reasons Bou mentioned among others.I just asked if it was a common practice in the area.Won't affect our operationd one Iota. T.c.

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    This incident occurred in west Texas. I can't speak for them but I can tell you what I have seen in east Texas as we go there quite frequently for training and have quite a bit of interaction. Much of that also applies to my chunk of LA, southern ARJ and southern OK.

    Most departments, with the exception of the urban ones, respond to 3x-5x the brush incidents per year compared to structural incidents. That ratio can also be used for many of the departments in northwest LA, southern OK and southern ARK.

    What you saw was not a Unimog, but appeared to be a 4-wheel drive midi-pumper, probably on a Ford chassis, with a 300-500gpm pump and 300-500 gallons of water. It was basically a large brush truck on a commercial chassis. It was a little larger than most, as the most common chassis is a F450 or F550, or similar size chassis, with a smaller pump and a 150-250 gallon tank, or simply a skid unit slid onto the back of a flatbead.

    Most departments in east and west Texas, and southern OK, have a crossover area on their brush trucks where 1-2 personnel ride and operate a booster line. This is extremly common, as often their fires involved large amounts of flat, open terrain and this is the most efficient way to deal with the problem. The crossover riding area is much less common in LA and ARK due to the terrain is not flat and generally riding is not practical.

    Most departments do not have wildland gear, despite the fact that they may respond to 70-200 brush fire incidents per year. It in most cases, does simply come down to money. They will use structural gear for wildland ops.

    I hope that answers some questions.

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