1. #26
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    Problem is that state contract is just like GSA so no bidding required and is fully legal under all federal, state, and local laws. Same reason HGAC exists and is recognized since anyone can participate.

    All products on the state contracts are pre-bid according to established minimum requirements, which meets AFG/federal guidelines. Plus any vendor that wants to put their products on the state contract can, so that's how they've met the open procurement requirement.

    Plus it's a procedural thing. If the city didn't advertise for bids then there's no forum to submit them legally. And if there's no requirement for them to request bids thanks to the state contract, then they have no requirement to accept bids and therefore can't.

    Amazing how many people suddenly have issues with procedures that they themselves have used to their own advantage when they can...

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting41NY View Post
    It's not like anyone can just sit down and write a 50 page pumper specification.
    No? The one that I wrote will be going out to bid in about 6 weeks, and is not tailored to any one manufacturer. Taken months to write it, and lots of meetings with a lot of manufacturers, but it's OUR specification. With enough time and energy, it can be done!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    No? The one that I wrote will be going out to bid in about 6 weeks, and is not tailored to any one manufacturer. Taken months to write it, and lots of meetings with a lot of manufacturers, but it's OUR specification. With enough time and energy, it can be done!
    Amen, Brother! It's called a performance specification, and in the end, almost EVERY manufacturer has to take an exception or two, but you get the most bang-for-the-buck, and considering that we are spending the taxpayer's bucks.... We bid an engine in 2007, and Pierce, Sutphin, American LaFrance, KME, and E-One were ALL able to bid competitively, because it was a performance spec, and anything that was very specific (Hale pump, Harrison Hydro-gen, etc) was availabble to every manufacturer.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

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    Who said it had to be 50 pages? Last few sets I helped create were 1 page with the can't live without list (pump, tank size, service locations, capacities, etc, etc). Everything else like the performance specs, warranties and other information is what will be in the builder's bid package, all you need is a safety net statement in the spec list that all of that information needs to be provided with the bid package and will be reviewed/considered upon submission. No need to spec gauge brand, light brand or other stuff like that on trucks. Everyone has a standard computer model with base NFPA 1901 load on it, it's easy enough to vary on their end. Same with equipment like SCBA, all you need is cylinder capacity, pressure, service related requirements (on-site vs not, etc), NFPA compliance requirements, and done.

    And if DHS sticks to their 'no vendor helping with even generic bid specs' position then I'm going to create another section to the web site and have a repository of non-brand name specific specs so people can have a reference library to download and use how they see fit. And if anyone wants to send one to add, they can do that too. Hence the advantage of being my own company, we don't sell anything, and don't get involved in the bid process, and if there's no brand name, no tie to anyone, no conflict in using what's there as a starting point to turn into your own spec. The way it should be.

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    Dont you work under the umbrella of and receive compensation from a certain equipment company? How are you going to get around that little niblet? Just curious.

  6. #31
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    Don't receive anything based on the results of grant awards or orders from any vendor, so no conflict. We don't write bids, take orders, or sell anything but grant services. Our vendors just supply us to get anyone help that needs it. Same as Kurt, and probably some of the others out there that do what we do, don't get any more or any less if orders come in.

    Especially there's no conflict in me posting them if there are no brand names involved in the specs and they're generic enough that any vendor can meet. We're not exclusive to any vendor for anything. We're hired all the time for other projects and products. Plus per documentation laws on the books once a single word is changed it's a different document owned in it's current form by the person that changed it, so if a department downloads a sample and enters their own values for cylinder pressures, service location distances, and everything else, it's their spec. Doesn't matter where they found it.

    Besides, if DHS isn't thinking enough to realize that all departments will do is go to other departments for their specs from a prior purchase then that's not really solving anything anyway. If bid law is adhered to (and it should be) then nothing that happened prior to the bid is relevant, case law already on the books proving it according to many an attorney. Already had several board lawyers from departments say that.

    And DHS can't get involved unless a complaint is made as to a conflict of interest, and even then if bid law was adhered to there's no basis for any kind of conflict. The conflict has to be proven and if documented and legal bidding was done, there is none. Documentation wins in court over opinions (hearsay rule). Just like the Pittsburgh thing, state contract is a legally recognized method of purchasing so nothing going to happen there but more sour grapes. The other two weren't getting the business even if they did bid, that's why most folks get rid of the low-bid acceptance rule. Rules are in place to encourage competition and if people are forced to the cheapest crap on the market no matter what that's not 'encouragement' and 'open procurement' anymore, that's the government telling people who to buy from. Think that fits the irony definition...

  7. #32
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    if DHS isn't thinking enough
    IF? IF? DHS.... IF???
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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