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  1. #21
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    Unhappy Training?

    If you are blocking the road when you lay 5", then you need some training in laying hose. It should stay within 4 feet of the curb.

    Stay safe,

    Pete:
    Pete Sinclair
    Hartford, MI
    IACOJ (Retired Division)


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete892 View Post
    If you are blocking the road when you lay 5", then you need some training in laying hose. It should stay within 4 feet of the curb.

    Stay safe,

    Pete:
    Not always true. Take for example a two alarm mansion fire we had in our first in last year: The city has a much bigger water system than we do, so the 3rd in engine laid a 5" line from a city hydrant, which all happen to be across a major 4 lane super road. So, we had PD stage the road in prep for the engine and they laid in. FP shut down the road for the next 6 hours.

  3. #23
    Forum Member sfd1992's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by trendle View Post
    For most fires though, the 3" is more than enough. A double 3" gets you what a 4" would get you, and that better be enough in all reality.
    OK, but why lay out double 3" lines (and reload them) when you can lay a single 4 or 5" line?

  4. #24
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
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    Harve, The best supply hose line is what works best for the department, apparatus and the area that the company covers.

    Back in the 1980’s we looked at several sizes of supply lines.

    We were and had been using 2-1/2” hose for supply for years. Be it ran into a gated wyes, siamese’s, suction or used to supply a multi-versal (ground monitor), 2-1/2” nozzle we used it.

    We had always used 3 inch from the ladder Siamese to the ladder pipe, so we said let’s try 3 inch as the main supply line.

    The Chief of Department at the time was a former Philly BC so he said lets copy Philly!! They at the time was using 3-1/2” threaded couplings, doubled jacket supply line.

    We measure what we could get through 200 feet of 2-1/2” and the same for 3”. The 3” gave more water, but we wasn’t satisfied. We wanted more water! We borrowed 500 feet of 4 inch LDH from a department about 50 miles from us along with the proper fittings, adapters and connections they agreed to loan us.

    After an extensive testing at the academy and on the actual city streets in various neighborhoods we decided that the 4 inch would be what we would order.

    We ordered 10 - 100 foot sections, 1 - 50 foot and 1 - 25 foot sections of 4 inch Snap-Tite LDH for each Engine company and reserve pumpers, tankers, foam units, training academy, plus three way valves, gate valves, adapters [increaser & reducers], spanners and 20 extra 100 foot sections, 10 – 50 and 10 -25 foot sections for the hose repair shop. A total of 6000 feet of 4” LDH was ordered and was received by freight at the training academy. Companies had been trained with the first batch assigned to the training school and were brought back to receive the issue and related adapters and appliances. All new hose line were tested at training, stenciled and packed into the apparatus while the company was out of service. Three Engine Companies were detailed for the day to training to receive the new issue. It made for long days for all. Every Engine Company were rotated through within a 4 week time period.

    Aerial Ladder Companies received four sections of new 3 inch threaded hose, made from the same material that the 4 inch was made of, for their ladder pipes.

    The two major departments to the North and South of the City, uses 5 inch LDH. If we run into either of the two areas, each apparatuis has adapters for 5 X 4 Storz. Likewise they have the same should they come into the City.

    When the Quints came, all companies received 1000 feet of new 4" LDH for the new piece.

    Its here to stay, I doubt if it will ever be changed to a diffrent size supply hose.

    Thats the long and short of it.....

    Last edited by CaptOldTimer; 03-04-2009 at 05:38 PM.
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  5. #25
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    In my world, all supply is 5". It doesn't make sense for us to have 5" for the big stuff and 3" for the day to day supply. That would mean a lot more hose on engines that are already to capacity. If you have room on your engine for both, I envy you. I wish I had more room. Hell, if I had more room I'd have 2000ft of 5" on the first out engine. Allow me to explain.

    In addition hydrant supply, we have many LOOOONG narrow driveways out in the township that you can barely get down without losing your paint job. At the end of that driveway is a nice expensive house with not much parking once the engine is in. Rather than back tankers ( ok, tenders ) down a 2000ft driveway, we would rather drop the 5" on the way in and relay from the road. The 5" blocks the driveway, but we were not going to be able to get a truck set up anyways with the limited room. Next in crews have to walk. Tenders dump at the site on the road, and drive away happy since they didn't have to back up a long driveway with hairpin turns.

    We also use the 5" to feed attack lines in select situations. Barnfires are a good example where you have to stretch lines many hundred feet around the back of a farm where there is no vehicle access. The 5" feeds a valve with 3 2 1/2 outlets. Takes time to set up, but like I said we use it only in select situations.

    For the BIG fires, I'll stick to laying dual 5's

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete892 View Post
    If you are blocking the road when you lay 5", then you need some training in laying hose. It should stay within 4 feet of the curb.

    Stay safe,

    Pete:

    Well I don't know about where your from but around here we have cars, trucks and any number of other vehicles parked at the curb, and most times on both sides of the street in many neighborhoods. Supply lines usually end up right in the middle of the street because there's no where else for it to be.
    Last edited by FFPCogs08; 03-04-2009 at 06:11 PM.

  7. #27
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    I think it all depends on your situation. I don't see LDH as being the cure all, using it comes with it's own set of problems.

  8. #28
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    Can be said of all FF EQ. Still looking for that perfect tool...

  9. #29
    Forum Member MoosemanKBB527's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    If you have to lay hose for a car fire, it's time to find something else to do.
    i was speaking generally a 25 or 50 ' lengths in between our old pumper which carries 300gal and out 2 tankers, but we did have had to lay a few hundred feet of 3" for a car fire that was way of the road and we wernt taking the tankers into the field and burying them
    ~Big O~

    Tankers have wheels and carry water, Tenders are breaded and served with BBQ sauce

    (if you don't believe me Google it)

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvfd27 View Post
    Can be said of all FF EQ. Still looking for that perfect tool...
    obviously, but the point is those who would say LDH is the only way are off base.

  11. #31
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Hmmmm..................

    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610 View Post
    Looks like a few people missed the sound of the baited line being cast.

    Humanitarian that I am, I removed the Hooks from the Lure first...........

    And to Pete892, Good to hear from you, it's been a while.
    Last edited by hwoods; 03-05-2009 at 07:20 AM.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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  12. #32
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Humanitarian that I am, I removed the Hooks from the Lure first...........

    And to Pete892, Good to hear from you, it's been a while.

    Harve.. you've opened a can of worms here.
    I wonder when the WT will give it the gaff!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  13. #33
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    What worms? As taught from probie;Big fire,big water(hose). Nameless; about those LDH problems you spoke of? We've used it for years,unisex and pretty painless once you get the "system" set up.We can adapt from 4 to 5 and everything in between.Some lays around here can be OVER 3000' so that kinda counts 3" out. Everybody's got a preference,I'll stick with 4 plus. T.C.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Harve.. you've opened a can of worms here.
    I wonder when the WT will give it the gaff!

    Now why would they do that...except for a few dissenters most guys on here could be salesmen for this miracle 5" rubber wonderhose.

    It's a good thing this stuff came along because without it we were never able to get a water supply back in the "good ole days" when Chief Flintstone ran the show.

    I jest..5' is a wonderful tool for the fire service I'm just a traditionalist when it comes to supply hose and a believer in "if it ain't broke don't fix it". But far be it from me to stand in the way of progress



    Cogs

  15. #35
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    LDH is a great way to move large quantities of water over long distances. Is it the only way? Nope. Is 5 better than 4 better than 3? Depends on how much water you want to move. Are we going to get rid of 2000' of 4" because 5 has lower friction loss at capacity? Not likely. 4" is the best way to supply water in town, in our little corner of the 3rd rock. Our neighbors have everything from 3" to 5".

  16. #36
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Got 4. Got 5. Got adapters so I don't care which way we go. We're NOT going back to 3".Big pumps,big distances so the 3 isn't practical HERE. Boss says it's 5 so guess what? We're gonna live with it.So I guess that makes me a traditional realist. T.C.

  17. #37
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Question Well.............

    I was a "Celebrity Guest Chief" at a Fire a long way from home, some years back. A 1,250 GPM Pumper was Drafting from a Lake, suppyling a 5 inch line that was the start of a 6,500 ft relay to the Fireground. Middle of the Relay was a 1,000 GPM rig that had contributed it's load of FOUR inch to the effort. All other hose was Five inch, other Pumps were 1,250 or 1,500 each. I have no idea if the 4 inch and the 1,000 pump caused any problems, since the Fire went out and everyone went home.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

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    www.gdvfd18.com

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    What worms? As taught from probie;Big fire,big water(hose). Nameless; about those LDH problems you spoke of? We've used it for years,unisex and pretty painless once you get the "system" set up.We can adapt from 4 to 5 and everything in between.Some lays around here can be OVER 3000' so that kinda counts 3" out. Everybody's got a preference,I'll stick with 4 plus. T.C.

    so are you attempting to tell me LDH has no drawbacks? If you think so tool has any drawbacks, you haven't used it enough in the real world.


    All I'm saying is that LDH isn't a magical conduit for water with no problems, just like 3 inch supply line isn't a magical hose that has no problems either.

  19. #39
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    LDH, Five inch preferred.

    If you are going to lay a supply line, then just do it once. The fire gets bigger... your still good to go.

    Blocking roads? Train and educate on how to avoid that. I've not seen a scene where we couldn't get to because of LDH. I Have seen 3" blow from having someone drive over it, so maybe it's a good thing that noone can drive over LDH.

    Does anyone still carry hose ramps for their supply lines? Even three inch ramps were pretty darn big.

    Easy to rack, no need to dry, no need for hosebed cover.. easy maintenance and field repairs.

    I likey very much.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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  20. #40
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    Have to agree with 4" LDH rubber jacket. Like the comment in the last reply that said lay it once. Every fire is different, but you can do a lot with a 1,500 pump and some 4".

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