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  1. #41
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    We carry 750' of 5", 550' of 3" and 550' of 2 1/2" on the back of our engines. It works for us. As the company officer, it is my responsiblity to call for whichever supply line I feel will be of the best use. I like the 3" for shed, or unattached single car garages. It is even good for the smaller one family homes. For anything else, I will order the 5" dropped. The fire department I started in had 5" or 2 1/2" with crappy pressures in town, so 5" was pretty much the rule for us there. Here, we have great pressures, but I also feel that it is easier to pick up the 5" rather than the 3", especially since I will have to clean, hang, and reload the 3" when we get back in quarters. Just how we do it around here.


  2. #42

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    Default 3 4 5??

    My department uses 5inch and 3inch we have 1000 feet of 5'' and 600 feet of 3'' 500 feet of 2.5'' and 2 1.5'' 150ft bundles aswell as 2 crosslays on our engine for the small stuff pull the lays but we dont have a water tower or a very good hydrant system so we put in a dry hydrant the 1000 feet will get us to anywere down the main drag we need to get to we would most likly use it to fill tenders but also carry there 3 inch to drop when needed no hook up the bundles.... it really doesnt get ussed all that much as we dont have many fires but its there and not on the floor!

  3. #43
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    We use LDH. It is the only way to go. If you need water, it gets it there faster than any other, and you just have to man up and use it. Also, hook up is much quicker.

  4. #44
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    We're rural, we don't have hydrants, and have to deal with long distances between the attack engines and where the water is coming from. 5" is the most practical way to get water to the scene efficiently with such long distances. Our first due engine has 2,000ft of 5". The next engine in has I think 1,500 ft. That will lay us a water main from the fire to somewhere convinient. It could be the end of the driveway, the end of a road, or even directly from a water source (pond or underground tank) depending on location. 3" supply hose would be useless.

    We can push 1000gpm through that 2000ft 5" hose. With the other engine, some relay pumpers, and mutual aid, we can put a water main from the scene to a pond in pretty short order.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  5. #45
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    We carry 4" and 3", though we'd like to replace the 4" with 5" at some point.

    We're rural also, but we often find ourselves limited by the amount of water we can shuttle. With hydrants and other fill sites so widely spaced and often traveling down very narrow roads, trying to achieve greater than 500GPM of flow via shuttle is very, very difficult. So most of the time we lay in 3".

    For the few times that we either mutual aid a neighboring city or the fire cooperates and is close enough to a hydrant, we'll lay in the 4".

  6. #46
    Forum Member bum291's Avatar
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    Our engine nothing larger than 3", the city has a good hydrant system with 6" connections but we put on adapters to connect 3" hose. There is also plenty of open water to draft from. The central fire station has a swap-load truck with a hose-laying container carrying 3" and large amount of 4", it sees used a couple of times a year. It is standard procedure to send a tanker with the initial force regardless of hydrants or open water. There is a trailer-born high capacity pump in the city as well, it has two 3" outputs rather than LDH.

  7. #47
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Here, the city battalion carries 5" and we in the country carry 3". I think 5" has its place, but there are few structure fires we encounter where dual 3" lines don't supply enough water.

    The thing to remember is that no matter what size hose you carry, it is useless without the water system to support it.
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  8. #48
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    LDH over other feeder lines basically provide two things: more water at the same distance or the same water at a further distance. If all your hydrants are closely spaced, this is not a major issue. If you're drafting or have poorly spaced hydrants LDH will be of benefit. Bigger flows, longer distances, far less friction loss.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    The thing to remember is that no matter what size hose you carry, it is useless without the water system to support it.
    That's not a completely true statement. If you have a pump, a straw and some water sitting around, you can make a water system. The fact that you carry LDH will give you more options for said make-shift water system. A crappy system that provides only 500 gpm at the hydrant will only give you the500 gpm regardless of the hose size. It's the distance from this hydrant that you can use the 500 gpm that will prove the benefit of LDH.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc407 View Post
    We use LDH. It is the only way to go. If you need water, it gets it there faster than any other, and you just have to man up and use it. Also, hook up is much quicker.
    It may be the only way to go in your district and with your resources, but LDH doesn't come without its drawbacks. I also fail to see how hook up is any quicker.

  11. #51
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Hmmn,Quarter turn coupling vs a screw thread.And you can't see how that's quicker? Lay either direction without a bag of adapters. Nah,that's not going to be any quicker. T.C.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Hmmn,Quarter turn coupling vs a screw thread.And you can't see how that's quicker? Lay either direction without a bag of adapters. Nah,that's not going to be any quicker. T.C.
    We don't have storz hydrants, I doubt many hydrants do unless its a very new area. Quarter turn to connect it to the adapter, but screw threads to put the adapter onto the hydrant. So thats an extra quarter turn.

    If there is an appreciable difference in connection time I wouldn't blame the hose, I'd blame the firefighter.

  13. #53
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    Extra labor,ONE end,if your rigs are set up with LDH intas and outtas(ours are). BIG difference in hookup not to mention delivery.MUCH faster than 3". T.C.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Hmmn,Quarter turn coupling vs a screw thread.And you can't see how that's quicker? Lay either direction without a bag of adapters. Nah,that's not going to be any quicker. T.C.
    For the record,
    You can get Storz couplings for 2Ĺ" & 3" hose.

    Here's a good quote from Larry Stevens on using Storz couplings on hydrants:
    Last month, my department explained to the water department its desire to convert all 335 hydrants in town to Storz using the water department's budget. Four weeks and $37,000 later, all of the fittings were on order and the problem solved forever. Nothing will ever happen if you don't ask. The days of caps that are too tight, cheater bars, crossed threads and jammed chains are over. Now, 30-second hydrant hookups are the norm. The weight of the hose pack has been reduced significantly, because we no longer need to carry adapters to convert to big and small ports to Storz.
    And more food for thought from Larry:
    Why do the rest of us continue to purchase hydrants with two 2 1/2" and one big port? Is it because we have always spec'd them that way? Did you know that several makers of hydrants can provide a hydrant with twin big ports or a hydrant with one 2 1/2" and two big ports for the same or less money than the old traditional hydrant? Big flows and big ports go hand in hand. Does the water guy know that all hydrants must have steamer ports, have at least a 5" barrel and a 6" or larger supply to get full ISOô credit?
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  15. #55
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    The funny thing is, it seems only those of us that still use 2 3 inch lines can admit our system has drawbacks, but the advantages in our area outweigh them. The LDH crowd seems unable to admit LDH has any drawbacks, which leads me to believe they haven't objectively looked at the issue.


    Until the LDH crowd can understand it isn't a flawless tool, there can't really be a good discussion on the topic.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Hmmn,Quarter turn coupling vs a screw thread.And you can't see how that's quicker? Lay either direction without a bag of adapters. Nah,that's not going to be any quicker. T.C.
    http://www.salhydro.fi/sh/index.php?...ath=38&pid=122

    We don't have that problem. Our finnish coupling is unisex coupling with a 100 degree twist to lock in place, it takes a beating and still locks up great, sizes up to 4" is with the Finnish fire connector, no tools needed. Next up is 6" Storz. We have minimised the variety of connections, our 1,5 1,75 and 2" hose are all with 2" connections, we skip the 5" storz, we may still use the 5" hose but put on a 6" storz. The VLDH hose, above 6" (e.g. 12", 10") probably have storz or superstorz. Thus, our engine has only 2" and 3" couplings, unless you count a few adapters and the suction hose.

    The one apparent downside with our coupling is that they are a bit big and thus may get caught on a corner if you don't think how you pull the hose trough a house. You'll have to rattle the hose to get it "off the hook".

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    Until the LDH crowd can understand it isn't a flawless tool, there can't really be a good discussion on the topic.
    Here's a few from a FD that uses LDH:

    It's heavier per length. This contributes to making it more time consuming and less "fun" to reload. This causes some to think twice about laying in against better judgment(cured by SOG and discipline).

    The burst and test pressure is lower on most LDH. Common is 200-225 psi with some older stuff being 185 psi. This makes pumping aerials difficult without using more inline pumps or attack rated LDH (we have 5" LDH with 275 psi test pressure).

    It's not as fast to deploy portable guns nor as easy for a single FF to hand jack any distance.

    Can't think of any more right now, we're happy to have it. In fact we just replaced all our 4" with 5" LDH. But given our poorly spaced hydrants and crappy mains, we need all the "help" we can get on the supply side.

  18. #58
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    The funny thing is, it seems only those of us that still use 2 3 inch lines can admit our system has drawbacks, but the advantages in our area outweigh them. The LDH crowd seems unable to admit LDH has any drawbacks, which leads me to believe they haven't objectively looked at the issue.


    Until the LDH crowd can understand it isn't a flawless tool, there can't really be a good discussion on the topic.
    And in OUR area,you aren't going to do dick with three inch.Hydrants are few and far between.Natural water sources and Engines(including MA)are numerous.We CAN put down over a mile of LDH and get rated flow out the end. 3"? You do the math,unless you cut in a bunch of Engines,it isn't happening.As Adam alludes to,it's slightly more labor intensive to pack,and generally enjoys a somewhat lower test pressure.After using it for over twenty years we're not going back(2.5/3"),we're going BIGGER.As of 6/14/09 everything out of Central will be 5"(4200')on three rigs.Satellite stations will follow,one a year from 4" to 5". NO hose is flawless but water(copious quantities)is what makes most barnburners go away. T.C.

  19. #59
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Here's a few from a FD that uses LDH:

    It's heavier per length. This contributes to making it more time consuming and less "fun" to reload. This causes some to think twice about laying in against better judgment(cured by SOG and discipline).

    The burst and test pressure is lower on most LDH. Common is 200-225 psi with some older stuff being 185 psi. This makes pumping aerials difficult without using more inline pumps or attack rated LDH (we have 5" LDH with 275 psi test pressure).

    It's not as fast to deploy portable guns nor as easy for a single FF to hand jack any distance.

    Can't think of any more right now, we're happy to have it. In fact we just replaced all our 4" with 5" LDH. But given our poorly spaced hydrants and crappy mains, we need all the "help" we can get on the supply side.
    I'll quote RFDACM02 since there is not much else that I can think of adding since switching to 4" about 25 years ago and then to 5" 15 years ago.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  20. #60
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    4" LDH here in a fully hydranted (although often lousy system) area.

    I would say though, the best supply line size is whatever the company behind me chooses to use as I go ahead and attack the fire

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