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    Question Best Supply Line Size???......

    I was going to ask which you like better, Fog or Smoothbore, but I know better than to start a controversy that would go on forever. So to avoid that I'll ask:

    Which Size Supply Hose is Best??

    We use 3 inch, largely because:
    A. We hate LDH.
    B. We don't have any LDH on hand. (See A.)
    C. 3 inch gets the job done well.
    D. We are located next to Kentland, so we can do anything we want.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    I was going to ask which you like better, Fog or Smoothbore, but I know better than to start a controversy that would go on forever. So to avoid that I'll ask:
    What's a fog nozzle?
    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Which Size Supply Hose is Best??.
    In the new world according to Garp....5", so we now use 5' because the fire gods said we should


    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    We use 3 inch, largely because: A. We hate LDH..
    So do we but we have no choice everyone around uses the greatest thing since sliced bread.
    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    B. We don't have any LDH on hand. (See A.).
    We have far too much
    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    C. 3 inch gets the job done well..
    Yes it does, but some feel we must fix what's not broken
    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    D. We are located next to Kentland, so we can do anything we want.
    We aren't anywhere near 33, but wish we could do what we want


    Cogs

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    We have and use both the 5" LDH and regular 3" supply lines. Well we mostly just use the 3" because its more vesatile and easier to repack.

    Stay Safe
    Bull
    Stay Safe
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    big fire big hose... little fire little hose

    5 works grate for barn fires and big house fires.. but im not going to lay 1000f of 5" for a car fire ... thers a time for both , an one lay of 5" sure beat have to lay down 2 or 3 lines of 3" up that 1000ft driveway
    ~Big O~

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Which Size Supply Hose is Best??
    Niedner Tidalwave 600™

    Tidalwave.pdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    I was going to ask which you like better, Fog or Smoothbore, what is this "fog" nozzle thing people keep talking about? but I know better than to start a controversy that would go on forever. that would never happen in a firehouse. So to avoid that I'll ask:

    Which Size Supply Hose is Best??

    We use 3 inch, largely because:
    A. We hate LDH. No offense Harve, but it sounds like you dont have enough experience with it. Come spend some time with me and Dad and I believe we could change your mind.
    B. We don't have any LDH on hand. (See A.) Last i knew, PG 25's was the only company with 5", is that still the case?
    C. 3 inch gets the job done well. Really? Even on a commercial building with heavy fire showing?? Do you want to wait for 25's to show up on the second alarm to wait for decent water????
    D. We are located next to Kentland, Thats your problem, you deal with it.
    Granted, I agree that the first and possibly second in engines dropping a 3" line may be ok for a single family dwelling. But Harve, have you ever pulled up on a garden apartment building (yeah like thats never happened in PG) that had heavy fire in multiple apartments or had heavy fire blowing through the roof, and you could have stomped on it hard with a deck gun or maybe a couple of deuce and a half handlines??????

    Now also granted, I will give you that 5" is a pain in the *** to pick up, especially at 3am when the snow is blowing sideways....But then again we dont drop our hose as many times as you guys do.

    I am curious about why you don't like the big hose Harve, not breaking your chops, please share your thoughts.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoosemanKBB527 View Post
    big fire big hose... little fire little hose

    5 works grate for barn fires and big house fires.. but im not going to lay 1000f of 5" for a car fire ... thers a time for both , an one lay of 5" sure beat have to lay down 2 or 3 lines of 3" up that 1000ft driveway
    If you have to lay hose for a car fire, it's time to find something else to do.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Who uses supply lines. We draft from the ocean.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Looks like a few people missed the sound of the baited line being cast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    That Niedner 1yr warrenty is pretty impressive. ATI has a 10yr warrenty.

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    We've used Angus 4" for years. We're switching to Mercedes Megaflow 5" starting with the Quint and phased in over the next five years. T.C.

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    I have experience using 5", 3", 2 x 3", and even 2.5" (long time ago...).

    For water you know you will not run out of, use the 5". I personally think it is just as easy to repack, and being rubber not woven jacket it lays flatter and nicer than some 3" would.

    For most fires though, the 3" is more than enough. A double 3" gets you what a 4" would get you, and that better be enough in all reality.

    The best solution, IMO, is put at least 750 gals on your engines. Have the first engine roll to the scene and the second in company make the hydrant IF IT IS NEEDED. The first in engine will know if you need the line when they get on scene. You don't need more than 750 gallons on 90% of all structure fires. Put the 5" on your engines, use it when you really need it. That way you have it and aren't laying it all the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    That Niedner 1yr warrenty is pretty impressive. ATI has a 10yr warrenty.
    Good point, but the Niedner is service tested at 300, versus ATI at 200. Yet I don't know what I'd ever think about doing with a 300 psi 6" line that I couldn't do with a 200 psi 6" line.

    And the Niedner is double jacket.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Who uses supply lines. We draft from the ocean.
    We tried that in the Harlem River once. Sucked up 2 legs, a hand, a 3 eyed fish, and a 9 iron.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    We were the 1st in our response area to purchase 4". Everyone thought it was useless..tankers and 2 1/2" was all you needed.

    Interestingly, everyone now has either 4" or 5"...hmmmmm. Still use tankers, 2 1/2" is for the "bomb lines" and everyone forgot we were the 1st to get 4". Go figure...

    How much do you carry on truck?? We carry 1200' on each Engine.

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    One of my pet peeves with 5" is that once laid, that's it the road is effectively closed. I have in the past moved charged 3" lines to allow incoming rigs access if/when needed, with 5" it ain't happenin". I also remember carrying hose ramps for the 3" on the rigs which could be deployed to allow for movement over the lines well...now they were cumbersome enough, if they have them for 5" I sure as hell wouldn't want to have to be the one to deploy them.
    Here's another, with our set up at least reverse laying 5" becomes a larger pain in the *** than it's worth. But I have always been a proponent of the reverse lay for a few of reasons...1)the full crew sans chauffer gets to work immediately while the rig hits the plug. 2) there is no need to worry about what happens if the hydrant man forgets his radio or fitting/wrenches on the rig and then is stuck at the plug with only you now what in his hand...all that equipment is standard on each engine and is right there when the chauffer needs it. 3) Having 2nd due lay out helps to ensure the front of the fire building is clear for the truck and that the truck has access to it. Are these big deals, no not really but these liitle things can help move an already chaotic situation along just a bit smoother.
    Ahh but what do I know I'm just a dinosaur.


    Cogs
    Last edited by FFPCogs08; 03-04-2009 at 01:27 PM.

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    Cogs,

    Agree 100% with the LDH blocking the road. Same issue with 4". If we can, and that is a HUGE "IF", we will try to push the LDH off to the side before its' charged. Not the norm though.

    Most of our lays in Town are 800' or less, so water to fire is the 1st choice. As always, this is a FG call. We're set up for either.

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    1500' of 5" on main engine and 1200' on second and third engine in the city.
    our county engine has 1000' of 2 1/2"
    everyone complains we need to put 5" on our county engine, but why?
    it is useless in the county where there are no hydrants plus the added weight it brings as this engine is not to be used in the city as it is our rescue and county engine.
    Puttin the wet stuff on the red stuff!

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    We use paired 3", but most of the surrounding county uses 4 or 5". The city is also lucky enough to have great hydrant systems.
    The opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not the opinions of the government that I work for.

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    We use 5" and if we need it for a small field fire or car fire and for tank fill, we can use 2.5 (or 2 x 2.5!?!) with jones snap (which is what all the side steamers on our hydrants have)

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    Unhappy Training?

    If you are blocking the road when you lay 5", then you need some training in laying hose. It should stay within 4 feet of the curb.

    Stay safe,

    Pete:
    Pete Sinclair
    Hartford, MI
    IACOJ (Retired Division)

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    Quote Originally Posted by pete892 View Post
    If you are blocking the road when you lay 5", then you need some training in laying hose. It should stay within 4 feet of the curb.

    Stay safe,

    Pete:
    Not always true. Take for example a two alarm mansion fire we had in our first in last year: The city has a much bigger water system than we do, so the 3rd in engine laid a 5" line from a city hydrant, which all happen to be across a major 4 lane super road. So, we had PD stage the road in prep for the engine and they laid in. FP shut down the road for the next 6 hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trendle View Post
    For most fires though, the 3" is more than enough. A double 3" gets you what a 4" would get you, and that better be enough in all reality.
    OK, but why lay out double 3" lines (and reload them) when you can lay a single 4 or 5" line?

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    Harve, The best supply hose line is what works best for the department, apparatus and the area that the company covers.

    Back in the 1980’s we looked at several sizes of supply lines.

    We were and had been using 2-1/2” hose for supply for years. Be it ran into a gated wyes, siamese’s, suction or used to supply a multi-versal (ground monitor), 2-1/2” nozzle we used it.

    We had always used 3 inch from the ladder Siamese to the ladder pipe, so we said let’s try 3 inch as the main supply line.

    The Chief of Department at the time was a former Philly BC so he said lets copy Philly!! They at the time was using 3-1/2” threaded couplings, doubled jacket supply line.

    We measure what we could get through 200 feet of 2-1/2” and the same for 3”. The 3” gave more water, but we wasn’t satisfied. We wanted more water! We borrowed 500 feet of 4 inch LDH from a department about 50 miles from us along with the proper fittings, adapters and connections they agreed to loan us.

    After an extensive testing at the academy and on the actual city streets in various neighborhoods we decided that the 4 inch would be what we would order.

    We ordered 10 - 100 foot sections, 1 - 50 foot and 1 - 25 foot sections of 4 inch Snap-Tite LDH for each Engine company and reserve pumpers, tankers, foam units, training academy, plus three way valves, gate valves, adapters [increaser & reducers], spanners and 20 extra 100 foot sections, 10 – 50 and 10 -25 foot sections for the hose repair shop. A total of 6000 feet of 4” LDH was ordered and was received by freight at the training academy. Companies had been trained with the first batch assigned to the training school and were brought back to receive the issue and related adapters and appliances. All new hose line were tested at training, stenciled and packed into the apparatus while the company was out of service. Three Engine Companies were detailed for the day to training to receive the new issue. It made for long days for all. Every Engine Company were rotated through within a 4 week time period.

    Aerial Ladder Companies received four sections of new 3 inch threaded hose, made from the same material that the 4 inch was made of, for their ladder pipes.

    The two major departments to the North and South of the City, uses 5 inch LDH. If we run into either of the two areas, each apparatuis has adapters for 5 X 4 Storz. Likewise they have the same should they come into the City.

    When the Quints came, all companies received 1000 feet of new 4" LDH for the new piece.

    Its here to stay, I doubt if it will ever be changed to a diffrent size supply hose.

    Thats the long and short of it.....

    Last edited by CaptOldTimer; 03-04-2009 at 06:38 PM.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

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    In my world, all supply is 5". It doesn't make sense for us to have 5" for the big stuff and 3" for the day to day supply. That would mean a lot more hose on engines that are already to capacity. If you have room on your engine for both, I envy you. I wish I had more room. Hell, if I had more room I'd have 2000ft of 5" on the first out engine. Allow me to explain.

    In addition hydrant supply, we have many LOOOONG narrow driveways out in the township that you can barely get down without losing your paint job. At the end of that driveway is a nice expensive house with not much parking once the engine is in. Rather than back tankers ( ok, tenders ) down a 2000ft driveway, we would rather drop the 5" on the way in and relay from the road. The 5" blocks the driveway, but we were not going to be able to get a truck set up anyways with the limited room. Next in crews have to walk. Tenders dump at the site on the road, and drive away happy since they didn't have to back up a long driveway with hairpin turns.

    We also use the 5" to feed attack lines in select situations. Barnfires are a good example where you have to stretch lines many hundred feet around the back of a farm where there is no vehicle access. The 5" feeds a valve with 3 2 1/2 outlets. Takes time to set up, but like I said we use it only in select situations.

    For the BIG fires, I'll stick to laying dual 5's

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