1. #1

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    Default Firefighter with a felony

    Hay guys. Got a guy on the dept. that has a felony from 20 years ago and been with the dept. for 10 years. He has never told anyone but the officers and is now scared hes going to get fired. He has always been a great firefighter and i would go to hell and back with him. just want to know others thoughts on this matter.... Thanks

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    I myself have a felony from two years ago, I'm currently in the process of trying to have it expunged.This is what your friend needs to do.An expungement removes his guilty plea and enters a not guilty plea and says the case was dismissed.So therefore in the eyes of the law he would have never been convicted of a crime and he can legally answer no to anyone who ask if he's ever been convicted of a felony.However he will have to say he was convited when applying for any state license.Hope this info helps

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    The expungement does not remove the FACT that he lied on his application and probably in his background investigation.

    He should not be fired for his past felony. He should be fired for falsifying his application. Remember, he deprived an honest person from having a job.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    The expungement does not remove the FACT that he lied on his application and probably in his background investigation.

    He should not be fired for his past felony. He should be fired for falsifying his application. Remember, he deprived an honest person from having a job.
    George is correct on this. The guy Lied. That is cause to be fired. My old department would toss the application if there was a indication on the applicant of a felony and if not the police background check would have got him, cut from the good guys.



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    The expungement does not remove the FACT that he lied on his application and probably in his background investigation.
    Provided the application demanded such information be provided...and the organization conducted background checks at the time.

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    At the bottom of nearly every employment application I've ever seen is a statement to the effect of "I certify that all preceding is true... blah blah blah and understand that falsifying this application can be cause for termination...blah blah blah..." right above where you sign. You sign it, you better be truthful, or it's adios dip$hit.

    Here you cannot be hired with a felony on your record, and a felony conviction is automatic termination at anytime during employment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Provided the application demanded such information be provided...and the organization conducted background checks at the time.
    You're right. But I have never heard of a career FD application that didn't ask if you had a criminal conviction. But I suppose it is probable that somewhere it exists.

    In this case, he is talking about getting the expungment after he got hired. He still had a conviction when he applied and was hired. If he answered that question NO, he lied. Period.

    I think it is irrelevant if the FD conducted a background. He still lied.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    I agree is that not one of the things we as firefighters pride ourselves of is integrity and honor. If he lied he shows none of these traites. Oh and if he has been on the department for 10 years y worry about it now.

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    y worry about it now.
    I assume that someone found out that he had a rap. He also knows that there is no such thing as a statute of limitations on lying on your employment app.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    very true. But i guess if he was that worried about keepinf his job I guess he shouldn't have told anyone about and then they wouldn't even know.

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    IMO a felony is a felony. However, they may be more willing to overlook his felony if it is a non-violent crime. (assault vs vandalism). He may be a great guy, but a history of crime shows that he is more likely to fall back into whatever pattern he was in when commited the felony.
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    I think many of you are jumping the gun saying he lied. (on his app or to anyone.) All it says is no one knows besides his officers. Shoot me for giving people the benefit of the doubt but I just thought I would point that out.

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    If he had a felony at the time of getting hired and marked no on the application that would be lieing. No matter what and if it was ok with the department and people know the circumstance then y would he be worried about loosing his jobs. But that fact of the matter is he did lie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    You're right. But I have never heard of a career FD application that didn't ask if you had a criminal conviction. But I suppose it is probable that somewhere it exists.

    In this case, he is talking about getting the expungment after he got hired. He still had a conviction when he applied and was hired. If he answered that question NO, he lied. Period.

    I think it is irrelevant if the FD conducted a background. He still lied.
    Actually George, it is against the law right across Canada. When you do apply however, you agree to a criminal record background check. Normally, that would show up his record depending on severity. You cannot ask anyone applying for a job in any position in Canada under the Human Rights legfislation if they have a criminal record.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMidget View Post
    IMO a felony is a felony. However, they may be more willing to overlook his felony if it is a non-violent crime. (assault vs vandalism). He may be a great guy, but a history of crime shows that he is more likely to fall back into whatever pattern he was in when commited the felony.
    The issue is not the felony. The issue is lying about it on his application.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireWA1 View Post
    I think many of you are jumping the gun saying he lied. (on his app or to anyone.) All it says is no one knows besides his officers. Shoot me for giving people the benefit of the doubt but I just thought I would point that out.
    Do you think that he noted his conviction on his application and the FD overlooked it?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Do you think that he noted his conviction on his application and the FD overlooked it?
    The question may or may not have been asked on his application. I imagine it would also depend on how it was wordred and what the existing policy was in this regard on the dept he was hired on. E.g. HTA, MVLA, misdemeanor, criminal code violation. I don't know if these differ from state to state or are nation wide.

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    If he lied, goodbye.

    If the felony is for a heinous crime then he never should have been hired. If he was convicted of for example felony theft by check, and has no further history, then its a case by case thing - provided he did not lie during the hiring process.

    And expungment is different depending on the state. In most states, if
    you get your record expunged, a non law enforcement criminal history
    check won't show it. If it is a law enforcment CH, then it WILL show up
    as an arrest, conviction, and then expungment.

    Non-law enforcement check is a hiring check, that kind of thing, a law enforcement check is what is pulled when you are being investigated.

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