View Poll Results: Tower Ladder Rescues

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  • Driver is responsible for removing occupants with bucket

    3 9.09%
  • Roof Firefighter is responsible for removing occupants with bucket

    9 27.27%
  • OVM is responsible for removing occupants with bucket

    3 9.09%
  • Ladders or other Firefighter is responsible for removing occupants with bucket

    2 6.06%
  • Follow direction of Truck Officer

    16 48.48%
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  1. #1
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    Default Tower Ladder Rescues

    Truck companies that utilize riding assignments know which member operates the tower and which member is in the bucket. These assignments may change based upon the company's due-assignment. For some truck companies, it may depend on the staffing available at the time of the alarm.

    When faced with occupants needing removal from upper floors, and operating a tower ladder, who is responsible for reaching and removing those occupants?

    "Heroic Rescues in W. Side Blaze"
    New York Post
    By Philip Messing
    Last updated: 11:23 am
    March 6, 2009
    Posted: 2:45 am
    March 6, 2009

    "Firefighters used rescue buckets to pluck trapped tenants from their windows in a blazing building on the West Side early today after the stairway became engulfed in flames. The 1:30 a.m. fire at 509 Ninth Avenue between 38th and 39th Streets left at least six people, including a baby, with serious, but not life-threatening injuries, according to early reports. The building has a store on the bottom and four stories of apartments above."

    Courtesy of New York Post
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    Last edited by bcarey; 03-07-2009 at 02:04 PM.
    "If you put the fire out right in the first place, you won't have to jump out the window."
    Andy Fredericks,
    FDNY E.48, SQ.18
    Alexandria, VA F.D.

    Rest in Peace

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcarey View Post
    Truck companies that utilize riding assignments know which member operates the tower and which member is in the bucket. These assignments may change based upon the company's due-assignment. For some truck companies, it may depend on the staffing available at the time of the alarm.

    When faced with occupants needing removal from upper floors, and operating a tower ladder, who is responsible for reaching and removing those occupants?
    Is this a trick question or something?
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Is this a trick question or something?
    ? Did you read the poll?
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    ? Did you read the poll?
    oooooooooooooooooooooooooooh.
    I'll go back to my corner now.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  5. #5
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    Know what is scary about this whole thread. Nine people need to wait to be told what to do and have not trained or drilled how their company will affect a rescue before it happens.

    Think about that.
    Co 11
    Virginia Beach FD

    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    Know what is scary about this whole thread. Nine people need to wait to be told what to do and have not trained or drilled how their company will affect a rescue before it happens.

    Think about that.

    I think you are looking at it the wrong way. Although there may be standing orders based on riding position, the final call is the officer's, since after all he is the boss.

  7. #7
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    You left out the option for
    () We don't have a ladder truck.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    Know what is scary about this whole thread. Nine people need to wait to be told what to do and have not trained or drilled how their company will affect a rescue before it happens.

    Think about that.
    We don't have a tower ladder, but we do have a straight stick and it would be up to the situation and the officer who went up to make the rescue. But we do train but at my dept sometimes we have a four or five man truck and other times only 3 so it is impossible to know for sure who is doing what job until the morning you arrive at work. Which is up to the officer.

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    Volunteer departments should use that picture for every fundraising event they do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechGuy View Post
    Volunteer departments should use that picture for every fundraising event they do.
    works better if the mega whackers put that on their myspace with cool quotes about "walking where the devil dances" and such.

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    so you're saying i should remove the photoshopped picture with my face from my fire resumes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechGuy View Post
    so you're saying i should remove the photoshopped picture with my face from my fire resumes?
    Depends- if you photoshopped your face onto the baby's, I would definitely leave it there.
    The opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not the opinions of the government that I work for.

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    It all depends on where the fire is, and if someone presents at a window as you arrive. Be more specific.

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    My logic.... which isn't normally very good

    The roof is pretty important position to give up.

    The driver cant do his job from the bucket.

    I would have to say OVM or the "other", provided that "other" firefighter isn't assigned F/E for the first due ladder co or search with the officer

    Wouldn't the OVM be making similar rescues opposite the fire with a ground ladder? Now he just uses a bucket.

    all this can be done without direction from the Truck Officer who should be inside searching and giving interior conditions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefuss View Post
    ... We don't use "OVM", our roof guy throws ladders with the inside hook, then takes windows on his way up. Inside hook meets up with the engine to pull ceiling, pack guy does a search, officer does what he does.
    Interesting that your "inside hook" is outside throwing ladders as opposed to inside making entry. Who does your forcible entry? The "pack guy" by himself?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefuss View Post
    What exactly is the drivers job where you work? Not bashing you, just would like to know how Jacksonville does it. Our drivers job is to get there (duh) and put the main in service if possible. So naturally, he would be the one to go up in the event there was someone to be rescued. The officer might assist. We don't use "OVM", our roof guy throws ladders with the inside hook, then takes windows on his way up. Inside hook meets up with the engine to pull ceiling, pack guy does a search, officer does what he does.
    I dont know how jacksonville does it. I just live there

    I suppose if everyone else was too busy to do something yeah the driver could do it all by himself.

    Told you my logic wasnt very good

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefuss View Post
    Yup, a maul and a halligan can get you through most anything. If you're lookin at a steel door we've got rabbit tools. Most of the time, on a row style dwelling, which is the majority of the city, the pack guy John Waynes it.

    And the inside hook guy helps throw a 35 and gets INSIDE. No to many of us can just toss around a 35 alone.

    If you've got a rippin 3 story row it could look something like this

    On location heavy fire 2nd floor front. NO MAIN SHOT (wires)

    Pack guy takes a 20 to the door, drops it and makes entry for prim. search, shuts down utilities after prim search
    Inside hook and Roof take a 35 to the roof, inside hook and driver take 28 to 3rd floor, then inside hook finds the tip and pulls ceiling ect. as needed
    Roof takes windows on the way up, and back windows from the roof if 2nd in ladder hasnt got there yet.
    Driver puts 20 to 2nd floor, and 28 to 3rd floor, takes saws to roof if ventilation needed
    officer gives interior conditions, gets reports from roof, pack and hook on progress.

    Again, just an example, by the time all this is going on, another ladder would probably be there assisting, and vice-versa.
    Ok, interesting setup.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefuss View Post
    Yup, a maul and a halligan can get you through most anything. If you're lookin at a steel door we've got rabbit tools. Most of the time, on a row style dwelling, which is the majority of the city, the pack guy John Waynes it.

    And the inside hook guy helps throw a 35 and gets INSIDE. No to many of us can just toss around a 35 alone.

    If you've got a rippin 3 story row it could look something like this

    On location heavy fire 2nd floor front. NO MAIN SHOT (wires)

    Pack guy takes a 20 to the door, drops it and makes entry for prim. search, shuts down utilities after prim search
    Inside hook and Roof take a 35 to the roof, inside hook and driver take 28 to 3rd floor, then inside hook finds the tip and pulls ceiling ect. as needed
    Roof takes windows on the way up, and back windows from the roof if 2nd in ladder hasnt got there yet.
    Driver puts 20 to 2nd floor, and 28 to 3rd floor, takes saws to roof if ventilation needed
    officer gives interior conditions, gets reports from roof, pack and hook on progress.

    Again, just an example, by the time all this is going on, another ladder would probably be there assisting, and vice-versa.

    How exactly does the roof firefighter take the windows on the way up?

    Which windows is he taking? Is he waiting for a report from the inside, or just arbitrarily taking windows?

    Which window/windows is he taking? On the fire floor? Floor above? Top floor?

    Is the line in place before he takes the windows? Is his egress cut off by fire venting from the window he just took on the way up?

    I am asking these questions with sincerity. I am always interested in how other departments operate.

    Thanks.

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    For us it would be the "outside team". We have an interesting setup in that not every riding position is described a specific function but rather an inside/outside team. Are "truck company" doesnt all even come on the same piece of apparatus. In general our outside team is made up of engineer/position seated behind engineer/and driver of rescue. They would be responsible for any outside rescue/ventilation including the VES. The inside team consists of officer/rear seat behind officer/ and right seat of rescue. Each position is assigned tools based on ridiing position.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefuss View Post
    ps, how do you post a normal friggin picture? I had to set that to a 16 color bitmap in order to post it. I've seen HUGE pictures on here, and that one is still just under the kb limit for posting. ??
    find one that is online, copy the URL

    and paste it in between "IMG" tags with no space in between. the example with have a space so it doesnt think its a picture

    [img]http://www.bigfirepicture.......jpg[/im g]

  21. #21
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    Default Another excellent example of a Tower Ladder and capabilities.

    Great job Gio and all the brothers in the Tonka Truck.

    FDNY offical press release



    Firefighters rescued panicked residents from a fire at this residential building in Bushwick.


    Firefighter Giovanni Martinez and other members from Ladder 124 made four daring rescues in Bushwick, Brooklyn, on March 24.

    “All the members did a phenomenal job,” said Battalion Chief Joseph Schiralli.

    The fire was first reported at 7:59 a.m. in a three-story residential building on Palmetto St. Firefighters arrived within two minutes to find heavy fire and smoke pouring out the windows on the second and third floors.

    They were told several people were trapped in a third floor apartment, unable to escape because the extreme fire conditions blocked their means of egress.

    The members of Ladder 124 set up their aerial ladder and Firefighter Martinez brought the bucket past the fire to the third floor apartment window, where he found a panicked pregnant woman and man.

    The window was open, but blocked by child safety gate, so Firefighter Martinez pried open the bars with his Halligan tool and safely removed the victims to the bucket.

    They told the firefighter another victim was inside, so he crawled into the apartment to conduct a search without the protection of a hose line. He found a semi-conscious man on the floor in a separate room and pulled him to the bucket.

    Lt. Robert Rochelle was inside the building as Firefighter Martinez made the rescues. He said, “You couldn’t see a thing and a flashlight does nothing at that point. He did a great job.”

    At the same time, Firefighter John Finn from Ladder 124 saw another third floor resident was threatening to jump. He climbed a 20-foot portable ladder outside to calm the man before the bucket rescued him.


    [L to R] FF Greg Fraccalvieri (L-124), FF Kevin Quinn (E-271), FF Robert Roscoe (L-124), FF Andy Castillo (assigned E-271, working in L-124), Lt. Robert Rochelle (L-124), [top row] FF John Finn (L-124), FF Brian Kelly (L-124), FF Chris Chiappetta, [bottom row] FF Carlos Ruiz (E-271) and FF Scott Carrella (E-271).

    Chief Schiralli also commended the members of Engine 271 for curtailing the fast-moving fire, which was brought under control at 8:34 a.m.

    Firefighter Martinez received minor injuries in the fire, as did 12 other firefighters and civilians.

    FDNY fire marshals determined the fire was accidental, caused by an extension cord stretched under a mattress.

  22. #22
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    Default Daily News

    FDNY firefighters rescue three, including pregnant woman, from Brooklyn fire

    By Matthew Lysiak and Jonathan Lemire DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

    Tuesday, March 24th 2009, 1:09 PM


    DelMundo for News
    Firefighter Giovanni Martinez rescued three residents from a Brooklyn house fire Tuesday.

    The rescue was especially harrowing because the Bushwick building's wooden siding caught fire, intensifying the smoke and flame as firefighters climbed a tower ladder toward the frantic residents, who were leaning out a window.

    The raging inferno ignited just before 8 a.m., forcing many of the Palmetto St. building's inhabitants to run to the street in their pajamas. Some on the upper floors could not get out.

    "I ran outside in my boxers and I saw fire all over the place," said Alex Castillo, who was woken by his mother's shouts.

    "I heard people screaming and saw a pregnant woman leaning out over the third-floor window," Castillo said. "She was hysterical. I thought she was going to jump."

    Within three minutes, several FDNY rigs pulled up to scene and discovered the building almost fully engulfed in flames.

    "I felt heat hit my face and it was terrifying," said witness Chetkiela Jenkins, who lives down the block and ran outside to see smoke pouring from every window. "I thought everyone was dead."

    Though the side of the building was burning, firefighters quickly raced up the ladder to reach the pregnant woman, who was gasping for air.

    "The fire was blowing out through the windows [and] I saw the victims," said Firefighter Giovanni Martinez.

    "She was hysterical, she was screaming 'Help me, help me, I'm pregnant," Martinez said. "I told her, 'I got you, you're going to be all right."

    Martinez placed the woman and two others into the tower ladder's bucket and took them to safety.

    "[The building] was hot, but you can't turn back and you can't come down without them," Martinez said.

    The fire was declared under control 30 minutes later, officials said. The cause of the blaze remains under investigation.

    The three people pulled from the flames were taken to Wyckoff Hospital and they were expected to survive, officials said. More than 50 people lost their homes in the blaze, officials said.

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    Every company in the city doesnt operate the exact same. Some need to adjust for street size, poorly designed trucks (22 and 6), officer preferenceSo in this image we would do the following. We rarely have problems making the block so our pack (search & rescue) is tasked with nothing other than forced entry and search. Our driver will try for a main shot but if unable will assist with throwing ground ladders. With the tillerman the driver will throw a 35 to the roof of an ADJOINING property. Once they make the roof the driver will open all natural openings then cut a hole if needed while the tillerman takes the 3rd floor front and rear windows. Our inside hook (maybe with the assistance of the officer) would throw a 28 to the 3rd floor positioned for rescue. Then a 16 or 20 to 2nd floor positioned between the 2 windows. Obviously depending on fire location the inside hook would then proceed to vent 2nd floor front windows then role the ladder to either window positioned for rescue. Remember top down ventilation. Inside hook then goes inside to open walls and ceilings.

    The below link is a job from last summer. Shows a 3 story porch front. No main shot. Pics show a 20 to porch, 16 to 3rd floor and a 28 from porch roof to roof of dwelling.

    http://eastcoast911.exposuremanager....ock_w_tioga_st
    Last edited by PFDTruck18; 03-25-2009 at 12:20 PM.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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