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  1. #1
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    Default Old School Heros

    I know I'm running the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, but I'm sick of seeing the incessant pop-culture worship of athletes and musicians. Sure, it's fund to watch some dude break a bunch of tackles and win a game, or listen to some jams every now and then, but it goes a bit to far when these entertainers reach "hero" status.

    I keep hearing the young 'uns use words like "hero" and "idol" to refer to a guy who throws a ball fast, or a guy who sings on some over-produced and over-hyped song.

    Back in the old days, an "American Idol" was something else entirely. For example, check out this guy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ7N6...eature=related

    Still holds the record for the highest balloon flight (102,800 feet) and fastest freefall (614 mph); did 2 tours of Vietnam; spent 11 months as a POW; and is still alive and kicking.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Kittinger


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    I wonder how his hand is doing. I know it survived but wonder if because of the hole in his glove it is causing him problems now.

    I have always been a fan of General Lee. I feel he was one of the best generals of all time. (and I know he fought for the Confederate Army).

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    I agree KingHippo....

    When and if I have kids, I will require them to watch a minimum amount of the History Channel instead of playing XBOX.

    This guy was a true hero...balls the size of church bells too!
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    I gotto watch the full epidsode and was amazed. That is totally cool.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    I know I'm running the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, but I'm sick of seeing the incessant pop-culture worship of athletes and musicians. Sure, it's fund to watch some dude break a bunch of tackles and win a game, or listen to some jams every now and then, but it goes a bit to far when these entertainers reach "hero" status.

    I keep hearing the young 'uns use words like "hero" and "idol" to refer to a guy who throws a ball fast, or a guy who sings on some over-produced and over-hyped song.

    Back in the old days, an "American Idol" was something else entirely.
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    You'll get no argument from me on those points, KingHippo.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

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  7. #7
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Post Yes...........

    We Agree. I have a huge problem with kids who don't "Play Outside". when I was a Teen, "Lost" was defined as being totally disoriented and needing someone to tell you where, or which way, to go. I don't think I ever got lost. True, there were times that I didn't know where I was, but I did know how to get back to a point that was familiar. Today's kids have GPS and still can't get home from school on time. And Music. My music back then, and now, is Classic Country. The tune is easy, and you can actually understand the words......... As to the "Idols" of the day, I don't recall any...... Except the Guys at the Firehouse.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
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    I think Joe Kittinger's hero was Chief Harve.....

    Back then Harve just got promoted to LT.......

    just kidding Harve...




    I totally agree as well. I could never come home on time when it was time. I was to be home by dark and there were several occasions dad had to come find me in his truck with a spotlight!

    I know this is for a discussion around a campfire and a couple cases of beer in my backyard but....what the heck happened to punishment and discipline???

    Give me a "time out" and send me to my room with my IPod, computer, phone, and Xbox or playstation. Yeah, that's punishment alright. You really want to punish a kid....take away their cell phone so they can't text or talk to their friends. That is to them like taking my bike away when I was their age.

    And this whole idea of "there are no losers" and nothing but kind words to kids. WTF??? Our local Boy Scout Troop just had their soapbox derby a few weeks ago. The troop leader decided to buy trophys for everyone because "there are no losers" and didn't want to make anyone feel left out. Again, WTF, over???

    Sorry, I will calm down now.
    Jason Knecht
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  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    This article falls in on this discussion, although its been had before in several formats. I still find it outrageous, regardless of where or how it comes about, although this time more so, because its from my home province/state. Fortunately, I came from the "If You "Earned A Zero, You Got a Zero" school of thought.

    Principals lowering standards, teachers say

    Complain they've been ordered to allow rewrites, never give zeros

    By Janet Steffenhagen, Canwest News ServiceMarch 16, 2009 2:06 AM

    B.C. teachers complained yesterday that school principals are ordering them to never give zeros when marking class assignments, to accept late work and to allow students to rewrite tests as many times as it takes for them to get good marks.

    Such orders are being delivered in many schools around the province by principals who have embraced a program called Assessment for Learning, and it's undermining teachers' professional autonomy in the classroom, delegates said at the annual meeting of the B.C. Teachers' Federation in Vancouver.

    "When principals say you have to retest over and over and over again, that is a violation of professional autonomy," Burnaby teacher James Sanyshin told the three-day meeting.

    It's as though B.C. principals recently attended a "can't-give-a-kid-a-zero conference," another delegate added.

    Some warned the imposition of top-down assessment practices is "dumbing down" public education and will ultimately result in more families turning to private schools.

    Burnaby delegates were particularly incensed, saying teachers are in the best position to evaluate student performance and they should decide what assessment tools they will use. The BCTF says principals are using Assessment for Learning to boost student performance and graduation rates in their schools.

    It's being presented as a cure-all and a best practice, Burnaby teacher Frank Bonvino said, adding: "It's good that these new theories are being discussed ... but it's got to be up to the individual teacher to decide how or if or when they're going to implement these things in their classroom.

    "Sometimes when I hear administrators talk about best practices, I think ... that's just a buzzword they use for 'teachers' autonomy is going to get screwed,' " he said. "At the end of the day, you have to have control and you have to be comfortable with what you're going to teach in the classroom."

    Union vice-president Susan Lambert said student assessment has become a political issue in schools because of standardized tests and a requirement for schools to show continual improvement in student achievement. "There's huge pressure on [principals]," she said. "You set a goal for your school and if you don't meet that goal, you're seen as a failing principal."

    Delegates also approved plans for an aggressive, year-round media campaign to promote public education over private education and to increase pressure for more public-school funding.

    But creative action must be the priority leading up to the May 12 provincial election if teachers hope to make education a vote-determining issue, union president Irene Lanzinger told delegates. That's because the government's so-called "gag law" restricts advertising by the BCTF and all other third parties.

    "We need to make news, use new technologies and engage our members like never before," said Lanzinger, who is unopposed in her bid for a third one-year term as president. "We all need to make sure the public and our members know how important this election is."

    Delegates plan to protest today in downtown Vancouver.

    © Copyright (c) The Victoria Times Colonist

    I still don't really think I had any "heros" as such as a youngster, except maybe my Dad and Step-Dad. They both seem to have had an fairly major impact on some of my major life choices. I don't work in the mill or drive truck for a living. "Go out, see the world. Meet all kinds of interesting cultures and people then learn some really kuul and imaginative ways on how to kill them." (or at least thats what the recruiting poster read. Or something like that - I joined when the Cold War was still raging. )

  10. #10
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Why does everyone blame the kids and not the parents...who incidentally, probably grew up in that old school mentality....
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7 View Post
    This article falls in on this discussion, although its been had before in several formats. I still find it outrageous, regardless of where or how it comes about, although this time more so, because its from my home province/state. Fortunately, I came from the "If You "Earned A Zero, You Got a Zero" school of thought.

    Principals lowering standards, teachers say

    Complain they've been ordered to allow rewrites, never give zeros

    By Janet Steffenhagen, Canwest News ServiceMarch 16, 2009 2:06 AM

    B.C. teachers complained yesterday that school principals are ordering them to never give zeros when marking class assignments, to accept late work and to allow students to rewrite tests as many times as it takes for them to get good marks.

    Such orders are being delivered in many schools around the province by principals who have embraced a program called Assessment for Learning, and it's undermining teachers' professional autonomy in the classroom, delegates said at the annual meeting of the B.C. Teachers' Federation in Vancouver.

    "When principals say you have to retest over and over and over again, that is a violation of professional autonomy," Burnaby teacher James Sanyshin told the three-day meeting.

    It's as though B.C. principals recently attended a "can't-give-a-kid-a-zero conference," another delegate added.

    Some warned the imposition of top-down assessment practices is "dumbing down" public education and will ultimately result in more families turning to private schools.

    Burnaby delegates were particularly incensed, saying teachers are in the best position to evaluate student performance and they should decide what assessment tools they will use. The BCTF says principals are using Assessment for Learning to boost student performance and graduation rates in their schools.

    It's being presented as a cure-all and a best practice, Burnaby teacher Frank Bonvino said, adding: "It's good that these new theories are being discussed ... but it's got to be up to the individual teacher to decide how or if or when they're going to implement these things in their classroom.

    "Sometimes when I hear administrators talk about best practices, I think ... that's just a buzzword they use for 'teachers' autonomy is going to get screwed,' " he said. "At the end of the day, you have to have control and you have to be comfortable with what you're going to teach in the classroom."

    Union vice-president Susan Lambert said student assessment has become a political issue in schools because of standardized tests and a requirement for schools to show continual improvement in student achievement. "There's huge pressure on [principals]," she said. "You set a goal for your school and if you don't meet that goal, you're seen as a failing principal."

    Delegates also approved plans for an aggressive, year-round media campaign to promote public education over private education and to increase pressure for more public-school funding.

    But creative action must be the priority leading up to the May 12 provincial election if teachers hope to make education a vote-determining issue, union president Irene Lanzinger told delegates. That's because the government's so-called "gag law" restricts advertising by the BCTF and all other third parties.

    "We need to make news, use new technologies and engage our members like never before," said Lanzinger, who is unopposed in her bid for a third one-year term as president. "We all need to make sure the public and our members know how important this election is."

    Delegates plan to protest today in downtown Vancouver.

    © Copyright (c) The Victoria Times Colonist

    I still don't really think I had any "heros" as such as a youngster, except maybe my Dad and Step-Dad. They both seem to have had an fairly major impact on some of my major life choices. I don't work in the mill or drive truck for a living. "Go out, see the world. Meet all kinds of interesting cultures and people then learn some really kuul and imaginative ways on how to kill them." (or at least thats what the recruiting poster read. Or something like that - I joined when the Cold War was still raging. )
    You know, I get really irate when crap like this comes out. IMO, the best damn policy is to put teachers and principals back in charge of schools. In my day, one of the toughest teachers I had was my principal Andy McGladrie. He lost a hand as a youngster, overcame it and went onto be one of the most repected educators in Alberta. He had 2 ways of doing things. his way and the wrong way. Funnily enough, one of his former students is now the Canadian Ambassador to a large European country, one is the second highest ranking RCMP officer, several served with distinction in the Canadian forces and several went on to become respected educators. He also was one helluva baseball player with only 1 hand. He has beaten Cancer twice and still is one of my Fathers best friends. Truly, our education system here is F***ed up now

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    You know, I get really irate when crap like this comes out. IMO, the best damn policy is to put teachers and principals back in charge of schools. In my day, one of the toughest teachers I had was my principal Andy McGladrie. He lost a hand as a youngster, overcame it and went onto be one of the most repected educators in Alberta. He had 2 ways of doing things. his way and the wrong way. Funnily enough, one of his former students is now the Canadian Ambassador to a large European country, one is the second highest ranking RCMP officer, several served with distinction in the Canadian forces and several went on to become respected educators. He also was one helluva baseball player with only 1 hand. He has beaten Cancer twice and still is one of my Fathers best friends. Truly, our education system here is F***ed up now
    THAT is truly a remarkable resume. Now, if only a few more could take a page from his play book and apply with any kind of integrity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7 View Post
    THAT is truly a remarkable resume. Now, if only a few more could take a page from his play book and apply with any kind of integrity.
    Actually Rick there are probably a lot more like him out there. Problem is that the parents and the system won't let true educators actually educate, including a swift kick in the butt if kids get out of line. Best damn thing we could do is get rid of teachers union, university dominated education boards and let the parents take back control

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    Hmmm... parents in control. Now there's an oxymoron. Seems to me that part of the problem in the education system now is parents NOT doing their job, parenting, and getting into the faces of the educators.

    The "I Dont Want Little Johnny To Read Lord of The Flies or To Kill a Mockingbird because it may mental illness or some such crowd is mainly responsible for the drastic changes in the school system. This is not just a problem in Canada, as we've seen/read reports of it from all over the US recently as well. Maybe if parents left the school educating to the teachers, and let them get on with their job, things might be better.

    But of course we can't have Little Johnny or Baby Sarah getting low marks in school as that might affect his/her self esteem or something. I've always been of the belief that you get what you pay for, and you get what you work for. OH wait. I learned that in school.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7 View Post
    Hmmm... parents in control. Now there's an oxymoron. Seems to me that part of the problem in the education system now is parents NOT doing their job, parenting, and getting into the faces of the educators.

    The "I Dont Want Little Johnny To Read Lord of The Flies or To Kill a Mockingbird because it may mental illness or some such crowd is mainly responsible for the drastic changes in the school system. This is not just a problem in Canada, as we've seen/read reports of it from all over the US recently as well. Maybe if parents left the school educating to the teachers, and let them get on with their job, things might be better.

    But of course we can't have Little Johnny or Baby Sarah getting low marks in school as that might affect his/her self esteem or something. I've always been of the belief that you get what you pay for, and you get what you work for. OH wait. I learned that in school.........
    Yep you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Actually Rick, I know what you mean about parents. I guess its a generational thing, in my day, if the teacher or principal gave us hell. my parents gave us more. BTW When do you hang up the spurs or whatever you squibs do

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    BTW When do you hang up the spurs or whatever you squibs do
    I guess the correct term is "spurs" (being of the army uniformed type) and that could be that I could hang them at anytime now, having attained the "exhalted 20 Plus Years" of service. I'm now into my 22nd year, so I can retire pretty much anytime I want to, although without having a solid job prospect that would offer me a salary similar to the one I get now, I'm not much inclined for retirement just yet. Why? You lookin' to maybe offer me something?
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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    I had an old battle axe of a math teacher who would smack you with a ruler up side the head if you fell asleep in class. (I fell asleep a lot)

    You know, funny thing was, it took only a few smacks to learn, hey, I better not sleep in her class anymore!

    Funny how things like that work.
    Jason Knecht
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    Altoona, WI

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    in my day, if the teacher or principal gave us hell. my parents gave us more.
    It was the same for me and is for my younger siblings as well. I was never home on time when I was a kid and like harve said.....i was never lost.....just didnt know where i was for a period of time

    We didnt get cable tv until I was at least 8 or 9 and didnt get any kind of video game until i was almost in high school. I never have played many video games or watched much tv. Sure I may watch a movie, or the history channel, or some of my favorite shows, but I cannot just plop my *** on the couch and just watch tv for the sake of watching tv.

    I'll mow the lawn, go for a run, do anything outside!

    So many of my peers are so consumed in video games it is literally all they talk about. Even at work. It drives me nuts.

    But these are also the kids who cant read a map or use a compass, live off the land, etc.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Why does everyone blame the kids and not the parents...who incidentally, probably grew up in that old school mentality....
    your right. From personal observation XBOX, T.V, and etc has been used as a babysitter. then the cell phone has been used for some sort of tracking device but the cell phones offer games, internet, texting, and some you can watch T.V on.

    my dad got along just fine as a child. He doesnt feel right about the whole electronic era.
    Last edited by bharer75; 03-17-2009 at 02:00 AM.

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    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Just had a really ugly thought:

    There is another article in the Victoria TC regarding the BC Teachers Federation dropping out of some Round Table discussion about special needs education and class sizes. It just occured to me that some of these same kids who will not be properly graded on their scholastic achievements (or lack there or) are destined to become our Replacements Of The Future Fire Service........

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