Thread: Burnt fire gear

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    Default Burnt fire gear

    i have been fighting fire for the better part of five years as a volunteer and a paid firefighter. I have been in probably 60 good house fires in that short amount of time as a firefighter and now as a captain. but here is the story about 2 nights ago i had one of my firefighters(who is on my department and also on another department in another parish where he lives) respond to a fire in the other parish whom we DO NOT HAVE MUTUAL AIDE with. he preceded to put on our brand new fire gear that we just got a couple of months ago. he precedes to enter a pretty good fire by himself first off and then BURNS thats Right BURNS a set of brand new gear. he does it so bad he burns the 3m Striping completely off of the jacket and puts black chared spots all over it at another parishes fire.

    I would like for anyone to post especially company officers the fire chief was made aware of it but we need to know what to do about this. because we cant replace the gear because it was not done at one of our fires, also i cant bring his tatics into the picture becase it happened at another department.

    HELP PLEASE im out of a 2500 dollar set of fire gear.

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    That's very interesting you've been in 60 or so "good fires", that will really help us with your situation. Thank you for informing us. Not only that you are a Capt. sounds like you are on salty vet and should be able to handle this.

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    Heres how I would handle it:

    1. Begin by immediately suspending him from all activities until further notice, pending the outcome of an investigation.

    2. Investigate what the correct discipline is to be dealt out and do so accordingly.

    3. Present him with an invoice for the replacement of the gear, and advise him that he remains on suspension until such time that the cost is recovered. Advise him that in the event he fails to reimburse the Department for the cost of the gear that he destroyed without permission or authorization, criminal charges will be brought against him.

    4. 60 fires, I am impressed. I have more time sitting on the toilet in both my career and volunteer house than you have time total in the fire service.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by dist8229 View Post
    i have been fighting fire for the better part of five years as a volunteer and a paid firefighter. I have been in probably 60 good house fires in that short amount of time as a firefighter and now as a captain. but here is the story about 2 nights ago i had one of my firefighters(who is on my department and also on another department in another parish where he lives) respond to a fire in the other parish whom we DO NOT HAVE MUTUAL AIDE with. he preceded to put on our brand new fire gear that we just got a couple of months ago. he precedes to enter a pretty good fire by himself first off and then BURNS thats Right BURNS a set of brand new gear. he does it so bad he burns the 3m Striping completely off of the jacket and puts black chared spots all over it at another parishes fire.

    I would like for anyone to post especially company officers the fire chief was made aware of it but we need to know what to do about this. because we cant replace the gear because it was not done at one of our fires, also i cant bring his tatics into the picture becase it happened at another department.

    HELP PLEASE im out of a 2500 dollar set of fire gear.
    So... what is the problem here?

    The "firefighter" who ruined the gear should pay for it.. then he needs to be brought up on charges.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Funny thing about fireman. Night and day, they're always fireman.
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    I took it as dist8229's point was he has been in a number of fires and had never ruined his gear like the individual he is speaking of. Some of you are so quick to be ******.

    To answer your question I thank FWDbuff is right on the mark.

    1. Begin by immediately suspending him from all activities until further notice, pending the outcome of an investigation.

    2. Investigate what the correct discipline is to be dealt out and do so accordingly.

    3. Present him with an invoice for the replacement of the gear, and advise him that he remains on suspension until such time that the cost is recovered. Advise him that in the event he fails to reimburse the Department for the cost of the gear that he destroyed without permission or authorization, criminal charges will be brought against him.

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    [QUOTE=FWDbuff;1042656]Heres how I would handle it:

    [/B]
    4. 60 fires, I am impressed. I have more time sitting on the toilet in both my career and volunteer house than you have time total in the fire service.[/QUOTE]

    Actually medical science can help you with this problem

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    the question is what are the circumstances behind the incident. sure it is easy to say you went to a fire in another district and trashed a set of turn out gear. now, you must pay!!!
    however, was it a case of him just saying heck yea i am going to this fire or, was it a case of he saw the fire and tried to make a rescue before the arrival of the fire department. I would hate to see you jump the gun on this and in the end look like a jacka##.
    If after investigating the situation you all find out that he was acting in a manner that resulted in a significant positive outcome in the incident. (i.e. tried sucessfully or unsucessfully to rescue a trapped person before the fd arrival or the department was grossly understaffed and he was staffing a RIT team and was involved in a firefighter rescue.) then i say bite the bullet and say good job brother!
    If you after investigating the situation you find that he was just jumping the call for the "fun of it." then you need to bill him for the cost of the damaged turn out gear.
    The fact that your dept. does not have a mutual aid respond agreement does not matter. I feel that it is more important to look at his actions and the outcome of those actions. For this problem I feel it is best to apply the washington post decision making process. I can see the head lines now FIREFIGHTER CHARGED $2500 AFTER SAVING MAN FROM HIS BURNING HOME.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFRENG1 View Post
    I took it as dist8229's point was he has been in a number of fires and had never ruined his gear like the individual he is speaking of. Some of you are so quick to be ******.

    That should be "******" with a capital "P"
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Ok, let me get this right.

    Firefighter from Department A went to a fire in Department B's area. This person is not a member of that department correct? This person used his Department A's gear to go to this call?

    Sounds to me like freelancing. Unless he was driving by and was flagged down that someone was inside and he was trying to make a rescue.....he should be reprimanded.

    People just can't go around and show up at fires where they want to. No accountability for that. Now he ruined a set of gear. He should be ordered to repay at least part, if not all of the cost of the gear. You can garnish his wages to get some of this cost back.

    If one of my guys did this....I would suspend until further notice pending investigation. I would investigate it completely by talking to him, the IC and chief of the other department, and any other witness I can find. I would have to find out his motivation for responding to that fire. If he was going to make a legitimate attempt at a rescue, I guess I would be ok with that. Anything other than that, no, not acceptable at all to respond out of the blue to someone else's fire.
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    guy sounds like a whacker, easy solution. Confiscate his burnt up gear and say you'll sell it to him for how ever much a new set will cost. He'll easily cough up the money, so he can take pictures of himself in it.

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    precedes to enter a pretty good fire by himself
    So he entered before himself? How the heck did he burn his gear if he was in there before himself, and can you now be sure he was alone in there, or did he go in with himself?

    If both of him went in and only one set of gear was burnt, I would say you got of lightly this time, crickey, they could have wrecked both sets.

    Inquiring minds need these salient points answered before proceeding to provide answers.

    PS. Some of us have been fighting FIRES for a while now. You have "fighting fire for the better part of five years as a volunteer and a paid firefighter". What is the problem with that fire, do you want more water?
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
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    make him pay, but offer to set up a payment plan
    suspend him from fireground activity until he pays his gear off and is issued new gear.
    if he is a firefighter in another area, why wouldnt he have used that set of gear, we have a situation like that in our department and he has two sets of gear
    Puttin the wet stuff on the red stuff!

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    Imo, he would be liable. He may have had the best intentions, but that was not his personal gear. I would give him the opportunity to reimburse. If he refused? No choice but to hand it over to the Town attorney or small claims court.

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    Here's a little story from the GAWCFI Chronicles.

    A Chief officer of a fairly slow Vol. FD in my county called the Arson Unit one day to ask some advice. Seems one of his FF had come back to the firehouse with a severely burned helmet and coat. Told this wild tale of responding on his own to a very, very large fire in a large urban center with the Vol. FD's gear. It seems as though he was the only person at this scene who was not afraid to enter the building (a block long industrial building-heavily involved) to fight the fire. He claims he was asked by the IC to do this because his guys were afraid. He then claimed to have saved the day by singlehandedly cutting down several trees nbext to the fire building to provide better access for the FD to fight the fire. Claimed that the trees were on fire as he was cutting them. His gear was ruined due to the extreme conditions he used it under.

    We asked him to bring the gear in. To me, I was highly suspect of the story (duh!). The pattern of damage on the gear loked like someone had taken a propane torch and burned holes in it. IT wasn't wet or dirty. The helmet had little holes melted in it.

    We opened an investigation. Called the large urban FD and found that this "hero" had been invited to leave the scene of his own accord prior to official intervention by local law enforcement. He got nowhere near the building.

    Sent the gear back to the manufacturer. They confirmed that the gear had been exposed to a point heat source and was not exposed to the fire. They were willing to testify as an expert witness.

    I charged the bozo with Criminal Mischief. Pretty sure it was knocked down to municipal court where he pled guilty. He is no longer a FF (or so I'm told).

    No accusations. Just food for thought.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    If I'm reading this right... FF works for both Dept's A and B. Using Dept A's gear, he enters a fire in Dept B's area, and damages said gear?

    Should be fairly straightforward, although politically messy... Assuming the FF was operating under direction/permission from Dept B, then Dept B owes Dept A one new set of gear (and the FF may/should owe Dept B for that gear). Should Dept B not be willing or able to make good, then the FF owes for it directly to Dept A. If he doesn't make good - then garnish wages, or other legal action is probably the final step.

    Either way, the FF needs to be called on the carpet, best by both departments, for (probably) violating several SOGs, and certainly gross stupidity. If he was freelancing (either in Dept B's area with Dept A's gear, or worse yet - in another dept althogether) then he needs either days in the park to think about it, or to just plain be shown the door, cause he doesn't have the right mindset for the job...

    OntFF221...

    PS - I don't have 60 fires under my belt, nor have I spent 5 years in the toilet. I'm happy about both of those facts...

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    Issue the gear to a paramedic. That way it will sit folded up somewhere and you will have no worries of it being used.

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    [QUOTE=BryanLoader;1042672]
    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Heres how I would handle it:

    [/B]
    4. 60 fires, I am impressed. I have more time sitting on the toilet in both my career and volunteer house than you have time total in the fire service.[/QUOTE]

    Actually medical science can help you with this problem
    No medical problems at all.
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    How did he get his gear burnt enough by himself before the other dept got there with out an air pack or does he have his own in his car?

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    Seperate yourself from this genius, now. Even if you don't get the money back out of the gear, you don't need a guy that shows up on someone else's fire and enters by himself (I'm with giweff, where'd he get a pack, or did he even have one on?).

    He obviously has no respect for teamwork or responsiblity on the fireground and is a risk to your department, or someone else's. If you really think you need the $2,500, talk with your department's attorney.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Seperate yourself from this genius, now. Even if you don't get the money back out of the gear, you don't need a guy that shows up on someone else's fire and enters by himself (I'm with giweff, where'd he get a pack, or did he even have one on?).

    He obviously has no respect for teamwork or responsiblity on the fireground and is a risk to your department, or someone else's. If you really think you need the $2,500, talk with your department's attorney.
    I would think he had a pack on or he would be in the hospital or even worse in the ground. I can not imagine it getting hot enough to burn new fire gear and not being on air.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dist8229 View Post
    i have been fighting fire for the better part of five years as a volunteer and a paid firefighter. I have been in probably 60 good house fires in that short amount of time as a firefighter and now as a captain. but here is the story about 2 nights ago i had one of my firefighters(who is on my department and also on another department in another parish where he lives) respond to a fire in the other parish whom we DO NOT HAVE MUTUAL AIDE with. he preceded to put on our brand new fire gear that we just got a couple of months ago. he precedes to enter a pretty good fire by himself first off and then BURNS thats Right BURNS a set of brand new gear. he does it so bad he burns the 3m Striping completely off of the jacket and puts black chared spots all over it at another parishes fire.

    I would like for anyone to post especially company officers the fire chief was made aware of it but we need to know what to do about this. because we cant replace the gear because it was not done at one of our fires, also i cant bring his tatics into the picture becase it happened at another department.

    HELP PLEASE im out of a 2500 dollar set of fire gear.

    That's why you shouldn't two hat.




    How's that for a bomb?

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    Run away from this wacker. Sorry, guess i'm too quick to judge.

    Anyway, story sounds fishy and even if it's true, he's probably a liability.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    So George....you have first hand info of this whacker??? Or are these two different whackers???


    Either way, Like ChiefKN says, run away, run fast and run now!
    Jason Knecht
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    So George....you have first hand info of this whacker??? Or are these two different whackers???


    Either way, Like ChiefKN says, run away, run fast and run now!
    I'm certain they are two different people.
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