Where does the captain go?

[ashncole]

I have always thought that on a 3 man interior attack entry team the Captain goes 3rd on the line One man is the Nozzle and shouldnt be doing as much work handling the hose as the 2nd guy really taking the weight of the hose while the captain is 3rd. I have always heard it as the standard way. The department chief Im currently with said I dont care how everyone else does it captain is the 2nd guy backing up the nozzle so he can see whats going on. I havent seen many who agree but we do what the boss says. I was just curious if anyone else sees it this way. Am I missing some advantages?

[ffmedcbk1]

We have the crew boss go second on the line due to the need for watching the team during the attack. If there are 3 ff's and the lt/capt, he will assume a side (hands off) position. It is rare that we have the 3 ff's on the line however.

There are no hard and fast rules about it.

It is a crime for the nozzle position to be the senior man (IMO). This is b/c the stream is the concern for the nozzleman and the 2nd position (or boss' position) is to oversee, direct the team, radio reports, and general crew accountability. The FDNY manuals are good source for info and teaching on the subject (that is not a statement of "worship")

As always, what is best for yours and my departments may vary.

[Bones42]

Our Captain stays near the line but not on it. He oversees and directs the operation, monitors the progress, and reports that to IC. Nozzleman and backup handle the line.

Most times, 3 guys on a 1 3/4" line, all bunched up together, is a waste of manpower in my opinion.

[MemphisE34a]

Our Captain stays near the line but not on it. He oversees and directs the operation, monitors the progress, and reports that to IC. Nozzleman and backup handle the line.

Most times, 3 guys on a 1 3/4" line, all bunched up together, is a waste of manpower in my opinion.

What he said.

[DeathValleyCap]

I've got plenty to do without being on the hose. Being on the hose is the best job in the fire service, truckies can disagree, but let the FF's have the hose. When you move to the front right seat you have to give up your place on the hose.

[BlueMtnsFirey]

Our station officers are genrally outside or near the door wearing a pretty looking IC vest

[PNEFD23]

Our Captain stays near the line but not on it. He oversees and directs the operation, monitors the progress, and reports that to IC. Nozzleman and backup handle the line.

Most times, 3 guys on a 1 3/4" line, all bunched up together, is a waste of manpower in my opinion.

Same here.

[ashncole]

Usually we always have a guy catching the hydrant so we have 3 total I think its a great idea to have the captain off the hose. when avaible to be off the hose but in the case of 3 guys making the interior attack would the captain be humping the hose around the corners or up stairs? while two guys are on the line or would he be backing up the nozzle man. In my opinion the guy backing up the nozzle man should be putting alot into backing up. so can the captain concentrate if hes number 2?

[DeathValleyCap]

BlueMtns: I hate to say this but your company officers need to learn how to be leaders, not managers. Leaders they lead, managers....well they are supposed to manage, but they usually are busy mucking things up for us trying to get stuff done.
ash: I hear you, I will help my nozzleman (woman) with the hose until the person on the hydrant gets masked up if we only have 3 on the engine that day, but I had to give up my position on the hose when I moved to the front right seat. Because my most important job now is looking out for my FF's.

[bharer75]

wait.. how does having 3 men on a nozzle comply with the 2 in 2 out rule?

[nameless]

wait.. how does having 3 men on a nozzle comply with the 2 in 2 out rule?

ugh, does anyone actually research 2 in 2 out, or do they just hear the name and assume what the regulation means?


our bosses are usually on the line aren't "tied" to it like the firefighters. They assist when they can and do boss things the rest of the time.

[ScareCrow57]

wait.. how does having 3 men on a nozzle comply with the 2 in 2 out rule?

2 in 2 out means there needs to be at least 2 out.

[Lump532]

In a glass, preferably with ice and your favorite cola product!

[DFDCar1]

CHAOS - Captain Has Another Outstanding Suggestion.

That said, IMHO, the company officer (captain or lieutenant) shouldn't be tied-down by having to be one of the jakes humping hose. You really can't see the true effects of your stream from behind the nozle; you need to get off to one side or the other. This also facilitates the officer "jumping in" if a victim is located or if someone gets hurt.

[bharer75]

2 in 2 out means there needs to be at least 2 out.

thanks. but I was thinking more of a 4 man engine first on scene with just the engineer outside. this wouldnt really happen with the 3 engine, 1 truck, and B.C response but it could if the engine was in its own station and the other responding units had the engines first in as a second or third due.

[nameless]

2 in 2 out means there needs to be at least 2 out.

there is more to it than just that. 2 in 2 out also stipulates that people entering the an IDLH environment must be in teams of 2 or more and maintain at least voice contact.

[len1582]

I'll have one hand holding a TIC, the other on the nozzlemans shoulder guiding, directing, and watching out for my crews safety. Unless it's necessary the officer shouldn't be working the nozzle because he should be monitoring conditions, along with the radio, and watching out for his crews safety. Back up guy behind me. I've not found anyone yet who can make a push with a line and look through a hand held TIC at the same time.

[bristolf36]

Sometimes when things are just perfect I have the nozzleman, his back up and then me behind/beside him watching how the fire is reacting to the water and making sure there is nothing in the bigger picture that they are not focused on that could hurt us. If it is a long lay hopefully you would get a 4th guy to push house around corners and up stairs, if I didn't have that 4th I would back up and have the 3rd hump hose.

[jakesdad]

We have the crew boss go second on the line due to the need for watching the team during the attack. If there are 3 ff's and the lt/capt, he will assume a side (hands off) position. It is rare that we have the 3 ff's on the line however.

There are no hard and fast rules about it.

It is a crime for the nozzle position to be the senior man (IMO). This is b/c the stream is the concern for the nozzleman and the 2nd position (or boss' position) is to oversee, direct the team, radio reports, and general crew accountability. The FDNY manuals are good source for info and teaching on the subject (that is not a statement of "worship")

As always, what is best for yours and my departments may vary.

Far be it from me to tell you how to operate....but a few thoughts come to mind concerning the officer backing up the nozzleman.

How can the officer do an adequate job of "providing radio reports, directing the team and accounting for the crew" if he is also tasked with backing up the nozzleman?

The backup position is not something that should be taken for granted or taken lightly. When done correctly, this position can make all the difference in the world for a successful advance under difficult conditions. As the backup man, your eyes should be in front and you should be accutely aware of every move the nozzleman is making. Otherwise, you are nothing more than just another body on the line.

You can be a good backup man and be a good officer. But there is no way you are good at both simultaneuosly.

[nyckftbl]

We have the crew boss go second on the line due to the need for watching the team during the attack. If there are 3 ff's and the lt/capt, he will assume a side (hands off) position. It is rare that we have the 3 ff's on the line however.

There are no hard and fast rules about it.

It is a crime for the nozzle position to be the senior man (IMO). This is b/c the stream is the concern for the nozzleman and the 2nd position (or boss' position) is to oversee, direct the team, radio reports, and general crew accountability. The FDNY manuals are good source for info and teaching on the subject (that is not a statement of "worship")

As always, what is best for yours and my departments may vary.

Im not sure if it was your intention or its just the way the sentence was worded and me having a really really long day, but it seems to imply that the FDNY has the B/U position as the officers position. The bosses dont have a position on the line here.

If I have the backup, and the boss tries to come between me and the nozzleman....hes going to have sore shins.