Thread: SCBA upgrade

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    Default SCBA upgrade

    Local FD purchased Scott Ap50 SCBA 2216psi on fire grant about 5years ago (NFPA 1981-2002 edition). Figured out should have bought 4500psi and want to upgrade. This is possible with Scott at around $550ea for installation of 4500psi repair parts. Will be NIOSH compliant and NFPA1981-2002. W

    ill also need 2x Carbon cylinders for each pak at approx $1100ea.

    Change will not meet NFPA 1981-2007 which would cost additional $2600/pak. FG will not fund updates of 2002 paks edition so not worth app.

    Anyone tried this "upgrade"? How will fire grant look at app? Guidance is must conform to NFPA as of time of mfg is question. Packs were compliant with NFPA1981-2002 lowpressure (as of time of mfg). if had been ordered/built as high pressure they would have met the standard.

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    I can't say as I've even heard of such an upgrade, but I've kicked around trying in the last couple of years myself. We've got some older 2.2's that we use more as back-ups to our 4.5's.

    I'm curious, why the need to upgrade to 4.5 now? If it's an interoperability issue, you might be able to push that on the app, especially if surrounding departments upgraded after they got their 2.2's.

    Can you tie the pressure upgrade in another upgrade that you can rationalize, like the PakTracker?

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    They figured out high pressure is the future after most of their mutual aid have gone to 4500psi. So yes mutual aid. Not a bad idea adding Paktracker would likely help rationalize their project with a safety pitch. Paktracker is a great system that has not gotten enough exposure.

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    If and when I get around to doing our project like this, I plan on looking at putting the PakTracker at the heart of the project, along with an air refill system, and maybe the equipment to do our own fit testing and possibly the equipment to do our own flow testing (gonna be hard to talk myself into this one).

    Anyway, with the mutual aid companies going 4500 psi, you might be able to push interoperability. The cost-benefit should be good, considering they're saving a ton of money compared to buying new packs (something I'd make sure to push in the narrative) to conform with what's apparently becoming a "standard" for the area departments.

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    We received an AFG grant in 2001 to upgrade our Scott 2.2 to 4.5 and add an integrated PASS alarm. At the time it made a lot of sense. Our packs were made in 1989-1991 and were still in good shape and financially it was a lot less expensive that purchasing new packs.

    However, with the fairly recent changes in NFPA regulations, you might not be able to get away with it today.

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    While I can appreciate having the 4500 psi packs to make them more interoperable, In essence they will need to spend $2750.00 per pack to bring a five year old AFG funded pack up to high pressure, & it still wont make them 2007 compliant. Then they will be selling off all the 2216 psi 5 year old bottles that were AFG funded and are now being called obsolete.

    I personally don't think this would score well with either the computer of if they are very lucky to get by big blue the peer reviewers. Not improving the standard only getting something they should have done 5 years ago when the got federal funding to buy new packs.

    Remember at the end of the grant app they ask if you have been previously AFG funded and if so what for?
    In my line of thinking this would be a wasted application.

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    Adding paktracker requires changing PASS and HUD. Additional $2100/pak.

    Yes likely a tough sell for grant app any concept.

    How does FG actually eval/weigh safety improvements. Paktracker is a great system and one could make a decent, logicial sales pitch on it's benefits.
    Last edited by neiowa; 03-18-2009 at 10:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Adding paktracker requires changing PASS and HUD. Additional $2100/pak.

    Yes likely a tough sell for grant app any concept.

    How does FG actually eval/weigh safety improvements. Paktracker is a great system and one could make a decent, logicial sales pitch on it's benefits.
    The Pak-Tracker can be purchased as a stand alone system, without any modifications to the SCBA. An integrated system would be the best method, but this is a low cost solution.

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