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  1. #1
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    Default SCBA award help/trouble

    So, Here it goes. After 4 years of applying to replace our aged SCBA we finally get awarded. YEAH!! now here's the problem. I applied for 12 SCBA well within reason based on the seated positions for my apparatus. The application makes it through to peer review where it gets a favorable nod. DHS knocks it back to four SCBA because I MISTAKENLY listed our old packs as being 1997 compliant. (OK TOTALLY my fault) I will gladly take the four I've been awarded. My question is if I explain this in my narrative this year, what are my chances of getting the other 8 that I asked for this year??


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    Did you give your AFG rep a call and explain what you did and that it was a mistake? Basically appealing the decision. Before you give up, it might be worth the effort.

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    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    What year are the packs you are trying to replace? Are all 12 packs the same age? I might have tried to contact your AFG regional rep to clarify that you made a mistake in stating that your other 8 packs were 1997 compliant, & ask them to reconsider the reduction.

    Usually they want to see a complete solution to bringing your PPE into compliance with NFPA standards. Airpacks however are a little different as they have stated they will not replace them strictly based on the fact they don't meet current 2007 specs and will replace only pack older than 1997 compliance.

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    Yes I contacted my rep who said too bad so sad.. I tried a grant amendment trying to get the 8 back and today they also said too bad so sad.

    I have 8 that are 1987 compliant and 5 that are 1992 compliant
    Last edited by NewAtThisGame; 03-17-2009 at 05:30 PM. Reason: not done

  5. #5
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    Grant Gurus....What if he declined the award and reapply for all this year??? just a thought....

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewAtThisGame View Post
    So, Here it goes. After 4 years of applying to replace our aged SCBA we finally get awarded. YEAH!! now here's the problem. I applied for 12 SCBA well within reason based on the seated positions for my apparatus. The application makes it through to peer review where it gets a favorable nod. DHS knocks it back to four SCBA because I MISTAKENLY listed our old packs as being 1997 compliant. (OK TOTALLY my fault) I will gladly take the four I've been awarded. My question is if I explain this in my narrative this year, what are my chances of getting the other 8 that I asked for this year??
    Is it based on seated positions or "X" amount per truck? I thought it was 4 packs per truck. Does anyone know the exact code for this?

    NewAtThisGame...I apologize for hijacking your thread. But your question has got me temporarily confused!

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    I was told by telephone that it is based on the "seated positions"

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewAtThisGame View Post
    I was told by telephone that it is based on the "seated positions"
    Does "on the phone" mean by the FEMA rep?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainReb22 View Post
    Does "on the phone" mean by the FEMA rep?
    yes it does. while trying to get my award reinstated. At first they told me that the reason for my reduction was based on me listing that I only stated that I had 4 seated positions. when I showed them that they were in error on that issue they fell back to the 1997 compliance issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainReb22 View Post
    Is it based on seated positions or "X" amount per truck? I thought it was 4 packs per truck. Does anyone know the exact code for this?

    NewAtThisGame...I apologize for hijacking your thread. But your question has got me temporarily confused!
    NFPA 1901 addresses this issue in regard to SCBA. It states:

    One self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA) complying with NFPA 1981, Standard on Open-Circuit Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA) for Emergency Services, for each assigned seating position, but not fewer than **, mounted in brackets fastened to the apparatus or stored in containers supplied by the SCBA manufacturer
    **That number is based on the type of apparatus.

    Pumper: 4
    Initial Attack: 2
    Mobile Water Supply: 2
    Aerial: 4
    Quint: 4
    Special Service: 2
    Mobile Foam: 4

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewAtThisGame View Post
    yes it does. while trying to get my award reinstated. At first they told me that the reason for my reduction was based on me listing that I only stated that I had 4 seated positions. when I showed them that they were in error on that issue they fell back to the 1997 compliance issue.
    Thanks a bunch for your help. I hate you got reduced but it sounds like you got a good chance at getting them back on this year's. Good luck to you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    NFPA 1901 addresses this issue in regard to SCBA. It states:



    **That number is based on the type of apparatus.

    Pumper: 4
    Initial Attack: 2
    Mobile Water Supply: 2
    Aerial: 4
    Quint: 4
    Special Service: 2
    Mobile Foam: 4
    Onebugle...thanks a ton. That'll help me out. I don't have much access to the NFPA codes. That's why I ask so many questions on this board. I need to get my town to purchase a few of them. Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainReb22 View Post
    Onebugle...thanks a ton. That'll help me out. I don't have much access to the NFPA codes. That's why I ask so many questions on this board. I need to get my town to purchase a few of them. Thanks again.
    You can access the NFPA standards for free on-line. You would be able to view them, but not the ability to cut and paste like I just did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    You can access the NFPA standards for free on-line. You would be able to view them, but not the ability to cut and paste like I just did.
    I didn't know that. I thought you had to purchase them. I appreciate the info.

  15. #15
    Forum Member SLY4420's Avatar
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    While we're on this topic: Has anyone successfully replaced packs older than 12 years, but yet compliant to 1997 standard?

    NewAtThisGame: May I ask what your call volume is like?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    While we're on this topic: Has anyone successfully replaced packs older than 12 years, but yet compliant to 1997 standard?

    NewAtThisGame: May I ask what your call volume is like?
    very little call volume
    110 calls last year. 40 due to an ice storm/ power outage for 8 days. 3 structures. one during the ice storm

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    Quote Originally Posted by accesslocks View Post
    Grant Gurus....What if he declined the award and reapply for all this year??? just a thought....
    I wouldn't go there. Apply this year with correct info for additional paks. No changes in packs purchased now and a year from now as next NFPA change is not expected until 2012. (at least by Scott, MSA tends to change things more randomly).

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    I asked our FEMA rep very specifically about the number of SCBA on an engine. He said it is the number of seated positions, so if your pumper seats 2 then you cannot ask for 4. I mentioned the 2-in 2-out rule and he replied by saying that if there are only 2 people on the truck, you can't play by that rule anyways.

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    And that's why this is always fun: whoever you talked to is wrong. DHS adopted NPFA as law and has continued to do so, so they are bound to provide NFPA minimums as such. NFPA minimum is 4 per pumper regardless of the number of seats.

    Of course your rep is also new since PM isn't there anymore, so he probably doesn't know anything about NFPA or requirements related to this program yet.

  20. #20
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    So if you are going after SCBA that is compliant to the 1997 edition then you don't stand a chance? Same boat as someone else. 1997 standard that is 13 years old.

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