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    Default Hammer sled - Pass or Fail. Timed event.

    This is the description of part of a physical I'm going to take here soon. I'm going to assume this is a Keiser sled. I know there are some threads on here as to the best technique and how to train, but I'm looking for times. What is a good time, what is a bad time? Anyone with any experience either as a participant or a proctor want to share. Thank you for sharing.

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    well, I have never heard of the kaiser sled being timed by itself, but I believe it. Usually the kaiser is one station on the physical agility with the whole test being timed.

    Obviously bigger guys will have an easier time moving the sled and have a better time compared to smaller guys who cant get as much power behind the sledge.

    I have seen some guys move the sled from one end to another in 5-10 seconds. This would be a great time.

    It takes smaller guys a bit longer. Sometimes close to a minute.

    Do you know the time limit? Im sure it may be around a minute or so, maybe shorter.

    Keep your heels lined up with the front of the sled as it moves. As you move the sled, move your heels back. This allows more leverage on your hits.

    Hit the sled square with the sledge. Dont hit it down, it will make it tougher.

    I hate the kaiser sled.

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    Default technique the key here

    Im not a big guy by any means, 5'8, 158 but I make quick work with a sledge or axe. I think the more important thing is how comfortable you are handling the tool. Working construction for the last decade allowed me to become very familiar with it.

    looking on youtube at the drill(as i have never done it) I believe that the problem that one faces is that its a relatively light sledge moving a heavy object. You'll need stamina and experience on the sledge to get through this one. Look at some of the videos and see how they use the hammer. One hand securely fixed at the end of the handle, one that slides back and forth to aid in the motion. If you use the tool right, you use your whole body to bring it down and strike the target.

    To set up something to practice on you could use three tree rounds, two for your feet and one on edge to hit. put some sand bags behind it then swing away until you can't go anymore, then repeat. Sledge looks to be 8lbs in the videos.

    hope this helps.

    hh

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoselayer211 View Post
    well, I have never heard of the kaiser sled being timed by itself, but I believe it. Usually the kaiser is one station on the physical agility with the whole test being timed.

    Obviously bigger guys will have an easier time moving the sled and have a better time compared to smaller guys who cant get as much power behind the sledge.

    I have seen some guys move the sled from one end to another in 5-10 seconds. This would be a great time.

    It takes smaller guys a bit longer. Sometimes close to a minute.

    Do you know the time limit? Im sure it may be around a minute or so, maybe shorter.

    Keep your heels lined up with the front of the sled as it moves. As you move the sled, move your heels back. This allows more leverage on your hits.

    Hit the sled square with the sledge. Dont hit it down, it will make it tougher.

    I hate the kaiser sled.
    Are you saying to hit more towards the top of the block as opposed to the bottom portion. Thank you both for your advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireCowboy1 View Post
    Are you saying to hit more towards the top of the block as opposed to the bottom portion. Thank you both for your advice.
    No - he's saying hit the face of the beam square on not at a downward angle.

    Imagine you are standing beside the sled watching someone else hit it. See the path of the sledge head as it moves through the swing. At some point the arc should enter the beam perfectly perpendicular to the face (or paralell to the ground if you prefer).

    This is the point you want your swing to be when it makes contact with the face of the beam such that all the momentum of your swing is moving the beam backwards. If you hit before that "sweet spot" you will be using part of your force to drive the beam downward - after and you're "lifting" the beam.

    Generally speaking - the best position to maintain this "sweet spot" is (as hoselayer211 said) by keeping the face of the beam between your ankles.

    Use your first couple of swings to get it there then follow it back as you swing by sliding your feet backward as you go.

    The hammer is a 9lb "dead blow" or shot hammer and the beam weights 160lbs and you must drive it 5 feet.

    http://www.keiser.com/products/other/forcemachine.html
    http://firefighterchallenge.com/Challenge/Rules.php (See the forcible entry event)


    Good Luck.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor

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    The sled on the Keiser needs to be behind your heels when hitting it. When it starts to ring like a bell you are hitting it squarely.
    Stephen J Bourassa
    Latham FD (NY)
    member since 1969
    challenge competitor since 1993

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoselayer211 View Post
    well, I have never heard of the kaiser sled being timed by itself, but I believe it. Usually the kaiser is one station on the physical agility with the whole test being timed.

    Obviously bigger guys will have an easier time moving the sled and have a better time compared to smaller guys who cant get as much power behind the sledge.

    I have seen some guys move the sled from one end to another in 5-10 seconds. This would be a great time.

    It takes smaller guys a bit longer. Sometimes close to a minute.

    Do you know the time limit? Im sure it may be around a minute or so, maybe shorter.

    Keep your heels lined up with the front of the sled as it moves. As you move the sled, move your heels back. This allows more leverage on your hits.

    Hit the sled square with the sledge. Dont hit it down, it will make it tougher.

    I hate the kaiser sled.
    I didn't mind the kaiser sled. Good advice to keep it at the heels and strike it squarely. I tended to strike it closer to the bottom of the weight. That's where I found the best movement. I'm 6'2" and 217 pounds. I was able to drive it down and back in about 45 seconds even after making a climb to the top of the tower on air while carrying a hose pack. The other piece of advice is to leave the hammer against the weight for 1/2 a second of so after you strike it to really make sure you've transferred all that energy into the sled. It really isn't bad, but your forearms will be sore afterward.

    Shane

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    Kaiser sled should take about 10 hits for a large guy.
    Total time should be <20 secs, more like :10 if you're good.
    The mallet should be bouncing off the sled; resting it on the sled, even a 1/2 second, could be seen as "hooking" the sled, which is a fail.
    Keep the mallet moving at all times.

    Here's a great video of a very fast Combat Challenge guy showing a good workout for the sled:

    Actual mallet part starts at about 2:00
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfrZx...eature=related

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    Flipper you must be a competitor to know about the hooking. I've seen the big guys use as few as 5 hits and as many as 13-14 hits. When I see then hitting it the 13-14 range I know I am going to have a slow time on the course, using over 20 hits. The last fast keiser I had was in Elkton, Md last year.
    Stephen J Bourassa
    Latham FD (NY)
    member since 1969
    challenge competitor since 1993

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    I've run a couple of times, happy to break 2:00.
    I agree there can be a vast difference in amount of hits!

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    I'm still competing in the challenge. Looking forward to the new season, with possible my 1st tandem partner that is local to me. My Co-ed partner and I will makeup the 1st >50 Co-ed Tandem.
    Stephen J Bourassa
    Latham FD (NY)
    member since 1969
    challenge competitor since 1993

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    Default How To Video

    Here is a very informative video about the Keiser Sled. Dr. Paul Davis, creator of the Challenge provides the narration and demonstrates techniques.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lx6h7To34M
    IF YOU CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT, GO BE A COP!

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    Just wondering what are the best exercises for this? I've been doing dumbbell swings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctrlaltdelete View Post
    Just wondering what are the best exercises for this? I've been doing dumbbell swings.
    Try this sledgehammer workout:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJWqx-zPffs
    IF YOU CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT, GO BE A COP!

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    I've been told I get to pick the series of events in the order I wish. Would it be wise to jump on the Keiser first so gunk can't accumulate on the sled. This was advised to me, and makes sense.

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    pewter98,

    Thanks for the link, went out last night an found an old tire and bought a 10 pound sledge hammer.

    This may be a stupid question, but if I have to move a 115 pound sled five feet, would standing on my tire which weights i'm guessing 50-75 pounds plus my weight 190 be equal or easier than moving the sled.

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctrlaltdelete View Post
    pewter98,

    Thanks for the link, went out last night an found an old tire and bought a 10 pound sledge hammer.

    This may be a stupid question, but if I have to move a 115 pound sled five feet, would standing on my tire which weights i'm guessing 50-75 pounds plus my weight 190 be equal or easier than moving the sled.

    Thanks
    Your welcome. I was impressed as to how good of a workout you get with the sledgehammer workout.

    I'm not sure I fully understand your question. Are you trying to simulate the weight of the before-mentioned 115 pound sled five feet by using your body weight plus the weight of the tire? If this is the case, then yes, this a good, low-cost way to simulate the sled move.

    You did not say whether your going to have to push or pull the 115 pound sled. Either way, since you already have a tire, check out a previous thread of mine titled "Home Fabricated Resistance Sled That Cost Under $110 To Build." Read the second post of the thread by powerhourcoug. (Links Below)

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=105441

    If you do chose to use powerhourcoug's idea, then you can seat your buddy or any type of weight into the newly-modified tire and simulate pulling and/or dragging a 115 pound sled pretty well. You can even perform the football-style exercise by getting low to the ground and pushing the weight-loaded tire.

    Pushing, pulling, and dragging a weighted object are an awsome exercises and I highly recommend doing them all!
    Last edited by pewter98; 05-03-2009 at 07:10 PM. Reason: Typo's
    IF YOU CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT, GO BE A COP!

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    pewter98,

    Really good post! I just have to move the kaiser sled five feet using a sledge hammer. I'm going to give powerhourcoug's idea.

    Thanks again

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    The Keiser Force Machine is a 160# beam on teflon runners that is driven 5' with a 9# shot hammer (dead blow).
    Stephen J Bourassa
    Latham FD (NY)
    member since 1969
    challenge competitor since 1993

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    Fitguy51,

    The one I was told that we have to do is 115# using 11 1/2# pound shot hammer for a forcible entry test. So for training I got an old truck tire and have been pounding away at it like in pewter98 video link and than standing on it and hitting to move it 5 feet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctrlaltdelete View Post
    pewter98,

    Really good post! I just have to move the kaiser sled five feet using a sledge hammer. I'm going to give powerhourcoug's idea.

    Thanks again

    Oh, ok so you were talking about performing the kaiser sled event. I still think performing the sledgehammer exercise that I gave you the link to will help out in building up strength and getting you used to swinging a sledge. Also, the pulling/dragging exercises will benefit you a ton both for preparation for a CPAT and in the fire service.

    If you really want to get an idea of performing the kaiser sled event, I would try going to a local fire academy or fire deparment, ask if they have a kaiser sled, and then ask if it would be ok for you to practice on it. It's pretty helpful to be able to practice on one before taking a CPAT because you get to experience the somewhat akward position you are standing in while swinging the sledge. If you do get a chance do practice on a kaiser, try to bring with you a spare SCBA or a weight vest and wear it while hitting the kaiser. Most departments require the candidate to where one of these while they are going through the CPAT.
    IF YOU CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT, GO BE A COP!

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    Default Gunk vs. Lube on a Kaiser Sled

    Quote Originally Posted by FireCowboy1 View Post
    I've been told I get to pick the series of events in the order I wish. Would it be wise to jump on the Keiser first so gunk can't accumulate on the sled. This was advised to me, and makes sense.
    I can see where this might be true. During my fire academy, one of the SCBA drills was for each recruit to go through the actual Firefighter Combat Challenge. When we got to the kaiser sled event, it looked like there was some gunk build-up on the rails of the sled and moving the beam took quite a bit of work, even when striking it correctly. This could have been due to stuff from recruit's boots falling onto the sled's rails or the fact that the kaiser sleds had been in storage since the semester before.

    A few weeks later, my academy hosted a joint-CPAT for several area departments. We were watching the instructors set the CPAT course up, when we noticed several of them spraying the kaiser's rails with some type of lube. I guess it what so each person taking the CPAT had an equal chance or something. As soon as the first person going through the CPAT got to the kaiser and hit the beam on the sledge, we all said to ourselves "They made it too easy! That guy wasn't even hitting the beam correctly and all that spray lube allowed the beam to fly to the other end!"

    So I say it's hit or miss as to how easy of hard the kaiser event will be based on the condition the sled is in. But regardless, you should always come to the CPAT in your best shape possible.
    Last edited by pewter98; 05-04-2009 at 01:59 PM.
    IF YOU CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT, GO BE A COP!

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    Pewter98,

    The sledgehammer exercise is working really well, I called some local departments and none seem to have the sled. So I guess for now I'll do the sledgehammer workout and stand on the tire and hammer away. I've been rolling and flipping the tire down the street, neighbors must love that! Since I don't have access to an SCBA I was planing on putting some weight in a backpack.

    Cheers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctrlaltdelete View Post
    Pewter98,

    The sledgehammer exercise is working really well, I called some local departments and none seem to have the sled. So I guess for now I'll do the sledgehammer workout and stand on the tire and hammer away. I've been rolling and flipping the tire down the street, neighbors must love that! Since I don't have access to an SCBA I was planing on putting some weight in a backpack.

    Cheers!
    Yeah, a lot of departments don't have a sled, my vol. department included. (though we have put in for a kaiser and a Rescue Randy for the next training budget) This is probably due to a brand new Kaiser sled costing well over $2,500 plus $250-650 for shipping. Flipping the tire is another great total body work. As you progress, you can even upgrade your tire to a tractor-size tire, like the one I posted about (titled "tractor tire) on a previous thread of yours:

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=105757

    The weight in a backpack is a good alt., just be sure to start off light and work your way up.
    IF YOU CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT, GO BE A COP!

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