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  1. #1
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    Default Is Pres. Obama Lying?

    IF you subscribe to the thinking that Pres. Bush was lying about WMD in Iraq, please read this article from the conservative think tank known as the New York Times:

    March 20, 2009
    Many in Government Knew Weeks Ago About A.I.G. Bonuses
    By EDMUND L. ANDREWS and JACKIE CALMES
    WASHINGTON — The question was direct and prescient. Representative Joseph Crowley, Democrat of New York, asked the Treasury secretary in an open hearing what could be done to stop American International Group from paying $165 million in bonuses to hundreds of employees in the very unit that had nearly destroyed the company.

    Timothy F. Geithner, the Treasury secretary, responded by saying that executive pay in the financial industry had gotten “out of whack” in recent years, and pledged to crack down on exorbitant pay at companies like A.I.G. that were being bailed out with billons of taxpayer dollars.

    The exchange took place before the House Ways and Means Committee on March 3 — one week before Mr. Geithner claims he first learned that the failed insurance company was about to pay a round of bonuses that have since caused a political uproar.

    A Treasury spokesman, Isaac Baker, said in a statement on Thursday night, “Although Congressman Crowley raised the issue of the bonuses two weeks ago, Secretary Geithner was not aware of the timing or full extent of the contractual retention payments or the other bonus programs until his staff brought them to his attention on March 10.”

    Mr. Baker said that after Mr. Geithner had been briefed on the bonuses, he called Edward M. Liddy, the chief executive of A.I.G., and “insisted that they be renegotiated and restructured, in light of the extraordinary assistance being provided by taxpayers.”

    Mr. Baker added that Mr. Geithner “takes full responsibility for not being aware of these programs before last week.”

    Interviews with senior Federal Reserve and Treasury officials, as well as members of Congress, leave little doubt that the bonus program was a disaster hiding in plain sight. Mr. Geithner is not the only one who appears not to have understood the populist fury the bonuses would set off.

    Career staff officials at the Treasury, Fed and Federal Reserve Bank of New York exchanged e-mail messages about the A.I.G. bonus program as early as late February, according to a person familiar with the matter. A.I.G. itself revealed the bonus plan in regulatory filings last September.

    In November, when the bailout of A.I.G. was restructured, Treasury and Fed officials negotiated the terms under which A.I.G. could make the retention payments. And in December, Democratic lawmakers sought a hearing about the payments.

    A.I.G., which incurred staggering losses through its sale of complex financial instruments tied to mortgage-backed securities, has received more than $170 billion in capital infusions, loans and credit lines from the federal government since last September, and is about to get $30 billion more.

    A.I.G. executives have insisted that they informed the New York Fed about the bonus plan, and that they assumed the New York Fed was informing the Treasury.

    Treasury officials have suggested that the New York Fed and the Federal Reserve Board in Washington failed to alert the Treasury staff until March 5. And Fed officials said that they not only alerted the Treasury staff weeks earlier, but discussed the issue with them via e-mail.

    Despite the interagency discussions in February about A.I.G.’s ill-starred bonus plan, as well as Mr. Geithner’s exchange on the matter in a hearing, Mr. Geithner continued to insist on Thursday that he had not really understood the magnitude of the bonuses until one week ago.

    “I was informed by my staff of the full scale of these specific things on Tuesday, March 10,” Mr. Geithner said in an interview with CNN on Thursday. “As soon as I heard about the full scale of these things, we moved very actively to explore every possible avenue — legal avenue — to address this problem.”

    As early as December, two Democratic lawmakers had vociferously and repeatedly complained about the bonuses, and one of them went so far as to demand the resignation of A.I.G.’s chief executive.

    But both Mr. Geithner, and the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Ben S. Bernanke, were preoccupied at the time with multiple crises. The nation’s banks were reeling from as much as $2 trillion in mortgage-related losses. The recession was deepening and unemployment was soaring.

    Mr. Bernanke’s team at the Fed and Mr. Geithner’s team at Treasury, moreover, were reluctant to impose what they viewed as “punitive” and possibly self-defeating pay restrictions on companies being bailed out.

    In early February, Mr. Geithner opposed a provision in the economic stimulus bill that would have slapped a steep tax on the kind of bonuses that A.I.G. was about to pay.

    If A.I.G.’s plan to pay out an additional $165 million in bonuses came as a surprise to Mr. Geithner, it did not come as a surprise to staff at the Treasury, the Federal Reserve in Washington or the New York Fed.

    Staff at all three agencies had been in daily communication with each other about A.I.G. ever since the Fed agreed to lend the company $85 billion in September in exchange for almost 80 percent of the company.

    In late November, after A.I.G.’s plight became worse and the Treasury jumped in with a $40 billion capital infusion, the three agencies negotiated cuts in bonuses and salaries for many of the company’s top executives.

    Officials at the New York Fed carried out the most direct oversight of A.I.G., and they were well aware of the coming bonus payments, said a person familiar with the matter.
    Admittedly, I cannot locate a reference to who the Dem lawmakers were, but if the libs can accept whatever is printed in the NYT w/o question, this should not be a problem.

    If this article is taken as fact, that would mean that members of the Obama Administration, the Federal Reserve and the Congress was aware on Innauguration Day that AIG was planning on issuing these retention bonuses.

    Now, fast forward to last night on Leno (from the Kansas City Star):

    Posted on Thu, Mar. 19, 2009
    Obama tells Leno he was stunned at news of AIG bonuses


    BURBANK, Calif. | President Barack Obama said Thursday on “The Tonight Show” that he was stunned when he learned of the bonuses that bailed-out insurance giant AIG was paying its employees.

    Obama told host Jay Leno that the payments raised moral and ethical problems — and that the administration was going to do everything it could to get the money back.

    But Obama added that the bigger problem is the culture that allowed traders to claim them.

    He said that has to change if the economy is to recover.

    Obama also said his embattled treasury chief, Timothy Geithner, is doing an “outstanding job.”

    Listing the recession, the banking crisis and the need to coordinate with other countries, Obama acknowledged Geithner is “on the hot seat.”

    But he said too many in Washington were trying to figure out whom to blame for things — when they should be focused on fixing them.

    According to NBC, Obama is the first sitting president ever to appear on “The Tonight Show.” He appeared twice as a candidate.

    In his opening monologue, Leno said lots of people were surprised that Obama would come on NBC — figuring he’d be tired of big companies on the brink of disaster with a bunch of overpaid executives.

    Leno also joked about the dismal state of the economy, saying it’s so bad Obama flew to California on Southwest Airways — making nine stops.
    Are we to believe that Pres. Obama was in the dark on this whole subject? I mean, AIG is being touted as being at the root of the financial crisis and that its failure would have triggered a collapse of the world economy. Yet, people in several areas of the government were not keeping the White House informed?

    Seems to me that this may be a lie. But, then again, I am a hateful conservative.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.


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    It's just another case of ail-prepared individual who has been thrust into the leadership role. He hasn't got a clue about what he is doing and the whole administration is a prime example of chaos in action.

    What I found funnier with this whole deal was that Obama denounced the bonuses only to find out it was his administration that pushed for the legislation to allow the bonuses.

    Now our legislators are moving into very dangerous territory in attempting to recoup the bonuses. And really, AIG still has to pay back all of the bailout funds, so what is the big deal.

    Bush had to deal with the collapse of Enron and Worldcom. So far, one would have to say that Bush had outperformed Obama.

  3. #3
    Forum Member gamewell35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It's just another case of ail-prepared individual who has been thrust into the leadership role. He hasn't got a clue about what he is doing and the whole administration is a prime example of chaos in action.

    What I found funnier with this whole deal was that Obama denounced the bonuses only to find out it was his administration that pushed for the legislation to allow the bonuses.
    Tell me, if in fact Obama did lie, and i'm not saying I agree that he did, how many people died over this??? Now we know that Bush lied about WMD; how many have died because of his lie???

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell35 View Post
    Tell me, if in fact Obama did lie, and i'm not saying I agree that he did, how many people died over this??? Now we know that Bush lied about WMD; how many have died because of his lie???
    "I will not talk to George. I will not talk to George. I will not talk to George".

    I would submit to you that the number of people who died is completely irrelevant. Any deception by a sitting President is a serious offense and a breach of his oath.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Forum Member DixieFire53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell35 View Post
    Tell me, if in fact Obama did lie, and i'm not saying I agree that he did, how many people died over this??? Now we know that Bush lied about WMD; how many have died because of his lie???
    One might ask how many lives have been saved. Thanks to all our military personnel who risk their lives to protect those who cant protect their selves and keeping our homeland safe while keeping the terrorist hosting nations in a state of unrest.
    DixieFire53, Deputy Fire Chief FF/EMT-P, Local 272

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell35 View Post
    Tell me, if in fact Obama did lie, and i'm not saying I agree that he did, how many people died over this??? Now we know that Bush lied about WMD; how many have died because of his lie???
    Bush didn't lie. He portrayed what he thought to be the truth as provided by American intelligence, British intelligence, and Russian intelligence. All 535 of our senators and congressman had access to the same intelligence and went with it.

    See the problem is, these knuckleheads don't take the time to read what is put in front of them. They aren't doing their jobs. I blame Obama for all the screw ups in the stimulus package becuase he didn't take the time to read it before signing it.

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    Forum Member DixieFire53's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    OneBigAzzMistakeAmerica
    I love it
    DixieFire53, Deputy Fire Chief FF/EMT-P, Local 272

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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieFire53 View Post
    One might ask how many lives have been saved. Thanks to all our military personnel who risk their lives to protect those who cant protect their selves and keeping our homeland safe while keeping the terrorist hosting nations in a state of unrest.
    You mean by destroying Al Qaida, the Taliban, and those who gave aid and comfort to Al Qaida we have saved thousand of lives? Now that you mention it, we were being attacked 3 and 4 times a year right up to 9-11-2001. We haven't seen a single attack since. You might be on to something.

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    Forum Member PhillyRube's Avatar
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    If they are associated with an organization with initials "R' or "D", they're lying.

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    Forum Member gamewell35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Bush didn't lie. He portrayed what he thought to be the truth as provided by American intelligence, British intelligence, and Russian intelligence. All 535 of our senators and congressman had access to the same intelligence and went with it.

    See the problem is, these knuckleheads don't take the time to read what is put in front of them. They aren't doing their jobs. I blame Obama for all the screw ups in the stimulus package becuase he didn't take the time to read it before signing it.
    Crow, George W. Bush wouldn't recognize the truth if he tripped over it. There's still talk of bringing him up on trial for his crimes during the current police/military action over there.

    Here's a few links:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/TOK403A.html

    http://www.alternet.org/story/38604/

    http://www.serendipity.li/impeachment.htm

    http://www.uswarcrimes.com/

    http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/Geor...ar_+_Peace.htm

    Just something to read over your coffee on Sunday morning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell35 View Post
    Crow, George W. Bush wouldn't recognize the truth if he tripped over it. There's still talk of bringing him up on trial for his crimes during the current police/military action over there.

    Here's a few links:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/TOK403A.html

    http://www.alternet.org/story/38604/

    http://www.serendipity.li/impeachment.htm

    http://www.uswarcrimes.com/

    http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/Geor...ar_+_Peace.htm

    Just something to read over your coffee on Sunday morning.
    Yea, and there are still whose who calim Obama is not a citizen. We dig up whackos anywhere.

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    Forum Member gamewell35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yea, and there are still whose who calim Obama is not a citizen. We dig up whackos anywhere.
    Good point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yea, and there are still whose who claim Obama is not a citizen. We dig up whackos anywhere.
    Do you have any proof that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen?
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Politicians lie??? REALLY???? That's whack man...

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    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvfd27 View Post
    Politicians lie??? REALLY???? That's whack man...
    Yup. Who would have thunk it?

    Just look at the problems that nimrod Chris Dodd (D) Connecticut has been getting into over his placing the language into the wasteful, pork-laden, debt-laden, will-do-no-good stimulus bill that specifically allowed for this to happen:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29814954

    God-willing this will just be another out-of-touch scumbag politician that will be out of a job in a year and a half.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    I would submit to you that the number of people who died is completely irrelevant. Any deception by a sitting President is a serious offense and a breach of his oath.
    You're comparing whether or not Obama knew about AIG bonuses to Bush lying and hyping the invasion of Iraq??? Damn, I knew you could stretch, but you've outdone yourself on this one.
    One might ask how many lives have been saved. Thanks to all our military personnel who risk their lives to protect those who cant protect their selves and keeping our homeland safe while keeping the terrorist hosting nations in a state of unrest.
    That's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen posted on these forums.
    You mean by destroying Al Qaida, the Taliban, and those who gave aid and comfort to Al Qaida we have saved thousand of lives? Now that you mention it, we were being attacked 3 and 4 times a year right up to 9-11-2001. We haven't seen a single attack since. You might be on to something.
    Even dumber. Of course, I expected no less from you.

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    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Do you have any proof that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen?
    Yep...he's the President of the United States of America, clown. How much more proof do you need?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Yep...he's the President of the United States of America, clown. How much more proof do you need?
    Whew! Thank god the expert on his citizenship has come forth with a definitive statement that extinguishes all doubt with the crushing weight of it's overwhelming evidence.

    That clears it up.

    Next!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Yep...he's the President of the United States of America, clown. How much more proof do you need?

    Oh and back at you.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Do you have any proof that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen?
    It's like this. He won the election. The courts have tossed the challenges. It’s time to accept we are stuck with him for the next four years; hopefully we can minimize the damage. Just get over it and move on.

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