Thread: tanker chances?

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    Default tanker chances?

    We are wanting to apply for a 2K gallon tanker this year and would like to know what our chances are. First we have a 76 pumper that is being replaced, our AFG pumper is being built. We have no tanker now. We also have 2 brushtrucks that are a 85 and 86 model that are old military trucks with skids. We have approx 30 hydrants in a town of 531. Hydrants are on less than large enough mains and we have have 2 hydrants that will flow 700 GPM and the rest are way below that. All but about 5 hydrants have dual 2.5's and no steamers. We carry 3 inch line due to this and no LDH. Our neighboring depts do not have tankers either due to their good hydrant system. We also have many residences with very long driveways that even with a plug at the street, we would not be able to suppy water. Is there any other points I need to articulate in my narriative? Im open for any suggestions. What ya think? Our area is 2.2 square miles i believe

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    what is your call volume? Not having one puts you in better range than having one. What is the percentage of your district without hydrants? Also, the new truck obviously significantly lowers your average vehicle age, but you can always apply, its free, and a no is the worst that can happen.

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    100% chance of nothing if you don't apply.

    Apply for LDH sufficient to run from your water source to anywhere in town. Like 6" Or at a minimum 5" from multiple hyrants sufficient to flow water to meet fire flow.

    If you mean you carry 3" because you have weak hyrants? If so that is arse backwards. That's when you need LDH.

    If you need 5000ft of 6" then apply for it. You can get a truck or trailer from DOD surplus for use as a hose wagon. No water on board, you can find an unheated location to park it. Likely useful in your rural area or mutual aid.

    Odds on LDH are going to be better than for a vehicle.

    And get going on CDBG $ for a mains/hydrant upgrade. The Socilaist in Chief is passing out pork$ for such right now.

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    Yes runing 3" is arse backwards but our hydrands dont have steamer fittings and the hose is brand new and was recieved on a grant prior to my arrival at the dept. If I get a tanker I will spec it so it will come with supply line.
    Our call volume was 32 calls last year with about half as fires and most of those fires were grass/wildland. We had and assisted a few structure fires. We assisted on 150 building fires on one windy day :-)
    As far as how much is not covered my hydrants...not sure how to answer that. There are hydrants in the area but so weak that a hose lay of any distance and they would be useless. What consitutes a hydrant being unusable? The spacing on our hydrants is horrible.
    This money you speak of to apply for larger mains and upgraded lines...where can I get info on this? Also this is a water users association...is that going to hurt me?
    Thanks

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    You need a lot more information before you can make a good case. Find out the gpm flow of the hydrants, the distances to structures from hydrants, how many actual structure fires you have had and how many mutual aid structure fires you've gone to, ISO fire flow requirements might also help. LDH is great if you have a long distance to structures. If you have a 400 gpm hydrant you can get 400 gpm a long ways through 5" hose. I would personally rather use the hose than shuttle water with a tender.
    Jack Boczek, Chief
    Ashley Community Fire Protection District

    FLATLANDERS FOREVER!

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    Agreed,
    Problem is again no steamer fittings on the hydrants to start. Also the water users association says I cannot test hydrants due to the fact that the storage facility is inoperable and has been for over a year. I have data on a few hydrants but not many. As far as spacing on hydrants goes that varies greatly. We may have a hydrant that sets at someones driveway but with a hydrant that puts out 220 gpm and has dual 2 2.5's and 1000' driveway I then have a problem. We have a whole housing edition that has one hydrant in the cul-de-sac and agin very low flow with doeal 2.5's. Im not trying to argue with anyone about what I need because I know you guys know best but I can only see a tanker for water supply in these situations. I guess I will get out my rangefinder over thenext week and try to figure distances between some hydrants and distances to residences. Any more suggestions?

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    I am no expert, but one of the computer questions is "what percentage of your first due area has hydrants?" It sounds like 100% from what you are telling me, regardless of their spacing or flow. If I were to guess, the simple fact that 100% of your first due has hydrants will cause the computer to kick you out.

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    I don't know what kind of odds you have on a tanker, as much of that's going to be based on a lot of the factors others have mentioned.

    Just to throw it out there, have you considered shooting for a pumper-tanker or maybe even a second pumper (you only mentioned having one) set up with a lot of LDH. I know of departments who will reverse lay to the hydrant with the LDH and relay to the scene when there are distant hydrants. We'll forward lay and hook in our second engine to the hydrant and relay if it's a long lay. If it's a no-steamer hydrant, they hook up dual 3's to the engine for supply and relay what they can get.

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    I'd suggest writing it as an engine, but with a 1000 gallon tank. This would allow you to pump in the majority of areas, where you have hydrants, but would also give you 1000 gallons of water for fire attack and/or some "tactical reserve".
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    George S. Patton

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    the new pumper will have 1000 gallon tank. I guess my best choice is to put pressure on the water company to get off their dead butts and do some work.

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    And talk to your governing body about ISO ratings and impact of fire insurance and your worthless water utility.

    A Kochek 2-1/2"F x 5"S adapter will cost you $100. Watch ebay and probably will eventually see one on there. Thats a cheap/easy.

    You need enough LDH to take as much water as available from hydrant or alternative sources and move it to any/all structures in your community. Adding supplies until you reach the required fire flow. May be multiple hydrants. Then do you have enough storage to maintain the FF. May need mutual aid to pump the hydrant/source or to relay pump. That would be the end game. Rural is another project but same equipment could be used and useful. Tanker is a 2nd/less desirable choice.

    We have no hydrants. Installed a fire pond in my front yard to supply water for in town (or rural) fire. Mutual aid (now our new pumper tanker) pumps from the pond thru LDH to scene. 5" came from DOD surplus. Also have 5000ft of 6" from DOD and working on a hosewagon to extend the reach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post
    I'd suggest writing it as an engine, but with a 1000 gallon tank. This would allow you to pump in the majority of areas, where you have hydrants, but would also give you 1000 gallons of water for fire attack and/or some "tactical reserve".
    If the pump is over 750 gpm, it will be considered a pumper regardless of tank size. If the pump is under 750 gpm and the tank is over 750 gallons, it's a tanker.
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
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