Thread: What is a squad

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    Default What is a squad

    I see NYFD running squads and engines. They look the same to me. What is the difference?

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    The FDNY operates I think 7 Squad Companies. As I understand their operation, the Squad Companies have normal 1st, 2nd & 3rd due Engine areas, but they also have additional responsibilities outside those areas that the Engine Companies don't have. On fires in those additional response areas, I believe they often operate as an additional "truck" or "rescue" company or assume one of those roles initially if arriving ahead of those companies.

    They essentially operate a "rescue-pumper" style apparatus while the Engine companies operate a more traditional style pumper apparatus. Thus they are equipped with some "rescue" equipment and can function in some situations in place of or in conjunction with the Rescue Companies. Along with the additional equipment, I'm sure they have some additional training that the regular Engine companies don't normally get.

    I think they also have some Hazmat responsibilites too.

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    Lightbulb Well...............

    What is in a Name?........ A "Squad" will be a different thing depending on where you are across the Country........ I've heard Ambulances called Squads in the South and Midwest, while a Squad is a small 4 door truck with a Mini Rescue style body in some parts of the Northeast. Here in the Mid-Atlantic, a Squad is a Heavy Rescue, the same size and Capabilities that are referred to as a Rescue Company in New York. New York's Squads would be called a Rescue Engine here, since it has all the Engine Company equipment as well as the large amount of Rescue Gear that make it a very handy thing to have.


    I'd be happy to post a photo of a Rescue Engine and one of a Squad but the Forums software won't allow it. See www.GDVFD18.com or check out the Forums Thread "New Rescue Trucks in California" for some examples of the variety that is out there.
    Last edited by hwoods; 03-26-2009 at 11:52 PM.
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    Could be a 10 man rifle squad too!!!


    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Tricarico-
    Trics Of The Trade: The Rescue/Pumper and the FDNY Squad Concept - Part 1
    The assigned duties of a Squad Company on the fireground

    Trics Of The Trade: The Rescue/Pumper and the FDNY Squad Concept - Part 2
    The assigned duties of a Squad Company at a trench rescue

    Trics Of The Trade: The Rescue/Pumper and the FDNY Squad Concept - Part 3
    Collapse rescue assignments and duties

    Pressler-
    Rescue and Squad Companies
    How Does Your Department Define Them?

    Harve, the FDNY Squads have quite a bit more than our rescue engines; in a side by side comparison including equipment and staffing quality, we have 'extrication engines'.
    "If you put the fire out right in the first place, you won't have to jump out the window."
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcarey View Post

    Harve, the FDNY Squads have quite a bit more than our rescue engines; in a side by side comparison including equipment and staffing quality, we have 'extrication engines'.


    Are you suggesting that someone, somewhere, does it better than we do here in Glenn Dale...........
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    Default Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Are you suggesting that someone, somewhere, does it better than we do here in Glenn Dale...........
    I'm sure Kentland does...

    Anyway, a squad in these parts is a rig that by county SOG has to be equipped as follows.

    -Full vehicle extrication equipment (cutters, spreaders, rams, bags, struts, etc) w/cribbing
    -Generator, lights, cords
    -Light-tower
    -SCBA refill capability
    -PPV

    That's the minimums, anything else is up to each FD. Most also carry assorted hand tools, assorted saws, cutting torches, spare SCBA and O2 bottles, rescue ropes/rigging, etc. Most are also ALS equipped.

    All but 2 are what you would call a standard heavy rescue type rig, like what FDNY runs just without the rear crew area and on a single rear axle. The other 2 are pumpers and carry pumper equipment as well as the squad stuff...
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    "It's all in the name" I agree. Our squads are pumpers with a set of spreaders, o cutters, 3 sizes of rams, the rest of the standard engine stuff and a ton of ground ladders including a 40 foot banger, PPV fan, exhaust fan, sprinkler kit, and other truck equip. They operate as a truck co. in there 2nd due and they get an actual truck if its in there 1st due, while they operate as an engine. It was a good idea when they originally came out with it, I think in the 70's, but it has the same staffing as any other engine, and dispatch still sends them as the 2nd truck co to multi story commercial structures. I don't agree with them as a 2nd truck, becuase the idea is to provide an elevated master stream among other truck duties. I am in agreement with multi-role rigs, but the staffing has to be increased on them so that they can function well. It is very difficult to operate as well as two dedicated-role rigs with the same manpower. i.e. a truck with 3 guys and an engine with 3 guys vs a squad with 3 guys. Same argument with quints, 5 guys min. IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Are you suggesting that someone, somewhere, does it better than we do here in Glenn Dale...........
    Nope.
    A combi-tool and two pair of step chocks doth not a squad make.

    However, on our end, rescue engines are a valuable apparatus option especially for those who run a second engine. There's only four triple houses, five once TW.818 is "reorganized", so it makes for good use of engine apparatus, especially if one of the special services goes o.o.s. Besides, anything "rescue" will always be resourced out of 22, "technically" speaking, except for water specialties.

    Speaking of apparatus, I wonder if Cap6888 is brushing up on Truck Company operations?
    "If you put the fire out right in the first place, you won't have to jump out the window."
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    FDNY E.48, SQ.18
    Alexandria, VA F.D.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lafrance4078 View Post
    ..... I am in agreement with multi-role rigs, but the staffing has to be increased on them so that they can function well. It is very difficult to operate as well as two dedicated-role rigs with the same manpower. i.e. a truck with 3 guys and an engine with 3 guys vs a squad with 3 guys. Same argument with quints, 5 guys min. IMO
    But something to remember with some of these multi-functional apparatus is that they weren't necessarily meant to perform all of the functions at the same time. To the best of my knowledge, St. Louis was pretty much the pioneer of the "Total Quint Concept" and in their application of such, the Quints deploy initially at least either as an engine OR truck, not both.

    The need for "extra" staffing would be based more on how many roles the unit is expected to fill on an incident rather than how many different roles the apparatus is equipped to fill.

    If the unit would be expected to put water on the fire and perform the search, ventilation or such, then I would agree that "extra" staffing should be there.

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    A squad is a bunch of repressed nozzle-nuts/ hose-draggers who really want to be truckies.

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    Firemedic049 you are to the best of my knowledge correct and i am from st louis they are the first fire department to incorporate the quint concept.

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    Lightbulb And..............

    While we're discussing (or is it just Cussing?) this idea, I've started prelimimary design work on a Tractor Drawn Rescue-Pumper-Tanker-Quint.....

    The Major Requirement is it must be Bigger than anyone else's.......
    Last edited by hwoods; 04-04-2009 at 12:02 PM.
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    A squad is a subdivision of a Platoon. Typically there are four squads in one platoon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    While we're discussing (or is it just Cussing?) this idea, I've started prelimimary design work on a Tractor Drawn Rescue-Pumper-Tanker-Quint.....

    The Major Requirement is it must be Bigger than anyone else's.......
    But can it fly?

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    What's all this talk about TW 818?

    That Apollo isn't back at Seagrave to get rebuilt is it?
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    Post Uhhhhhhhhhhh................

    Quote Originally Posted by Res343cue View Post
    What's all this talk about TW 818?

    That Apollo isn't back at Seagrave to get rebuilt is it?

    Yes, it's back at Seagrave. Whatever happens to it is not anything that I'm in on. My info is that it is no longer property of P.G. County. Seagrave's design team of that era should have known better than to allow that thing to hit the street. Several design flaws combined to create a monster that cost a lot of money to build, and more that it's origional cost to maintain over the years.

    First thing was a solid front Cab with no grille at all. This was compounded by not providing a Scoop/Duct to "Find" Cooling Air and direct it to flow thru the Radiator.

    Then, Seagrave failed to take a hard line and refuse the customer's (PGFD) design requirement that a Transmission retarder be used, and that a Jake Brake NOT be used.

    Anyone who is familiar with transmission retarders knows that they create a lot of heat, which must be dissipated somehow. Seagrave put a Transmission oil cooler on the Truck. Great idea. Except that the cooling system was installed INSIDE the Radiator.

    This had the effect of heating the radiator even more that the Motor did. The darn thing Lived for 13 years in a constant condition of Overheating at the slightest change in the Weather.

    On one occasion, I was driving it back from a vendor's shop in Western Maryland, coming east on I-70. The overheat alarm went off as I reached the bottom of South Mountain at Rt 17 in Myersville, from the Transmission retarder operating. The Outside Temperature was in the 30s...........

    If that thing was built with the current Cab design, and a Jake Brake, it would still be a great truck. It may be in the process of being rehabbed with those improvements, if so, someone will have a VERY capable Tower Ladder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    What is in a Name?........ A "Squad" will be a different thing depending on where you are across the Country........ I've heard Ambulances called Squads in the South and Midwest
    Not sure what part in the Midwest your talking about, but not in my part.

    ...while a Squad is a small 4 door truck with a Mini Rescue style body in some parts of the Northeast. Here in the Mid-Atlantic, a Squad is a Heavy Rescue, the same size and Capabilities that are referred to as a Rescue Company in New York.
    It doesn't matter what type of apparatus it is, a squad company is special rescue.

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    This is waht really sparked my thoughts on research of a squad and trying to figure out what one is. This is one of our neighboring departments. We do MA with them from time to time.


    http://www.customfire.com/d_pumper.php?id=495faa5267d01

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    Some cities in Wisconsin call ambulances "squads" like Green Bay and the surrounding area, Anitgo, and some in the Kenosha area.

    My area we call them "medic units"
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    Thumbs up And.............

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamelfire View Post
    This is waht really sparked my thoughts on research of a squad and trying to figure out what one is. This is one of our neighboring departments. We do MA with them from time to time.


    http://www.customfire.com/d_pumper.php?id=495faa5267d01


    Go Back to Custom Fire and look up Mount Horeb, Wisconsin's Squad 1.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Go Back to Custom Fire and look up Mount Horeb, Wisconsin's Squad 1.
    Harve that is a B I G ride.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Thumbs up Yeah..........

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Harve that is a B I G ride.

    Think That's BIG?? Take a look at their Peterbuilts........... www.FDMH.org
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Think That's BIG?? Take a look at their Peterbuilts........... www.FDMH.org
    Great department with a great bunch of guys. Very professional volunteers.
    Chief Chuck Himsel is a great guy and good wheeler and dealer for those trucks too!

    A town that has more money than they know what to do with.
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    Back home in Hamilton County, Ohio a Squad is defined as-
    "A unit for basic life support treatment and patient transportation."

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