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Thread: CAFS trainup

  1. #1
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    Default CAFS trainup

    New CAFS pumper tanker. Initial train up next weekend. Waterous rep will be here to train on operation of equipment. Will be doing test/eval of Akron, Elkhart, TFT CAFS 1-1/2" nozzles.

    I'm looking for ideas on training scenarios to demonstrate the capability of CAFS where will be putting foam on fire. Bright ideas or props you have used?


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    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Have access to a burn building that will let you burn skids??

    If not, get your hands on a BUNCH of skids....Make several stacks....Light them off one at a time and try the different proportions/air ratios.

    Is CaptLou your trainer? I am sure all of Waterous's people are good, but if it's Lou, you will come away highly impressed with CAFS's capabilities. The best nozzle by far for CAFS on an 1.75" handline is the 15/16" smoothbore.

    Tell him the boys from Bryn Athyn say hello.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Forum Member bjlffire's Avatar
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    2 stacks of pallets one with CAFS one without.,
    You have to show them the difference or they wont beleive.

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    No burn or other formal training facility in the area and mobile is months out to get.

    John P Roads is coming from SW (Az or NM) to train us.

    Pallets for a starter. I'm thinking more applied stuff.

    Whip up a 8' section of wall with plastic siding/etc next to a pallet fire to try exposure protection with foam coating.

    Maybe a car fire (with a load of old tires onboard).

    ???? looking for ideas and plan that push the hands on portion. Best training opportunity we'll likely ever have.

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    neiowa, could I ask you to please let me know how your nozzle testing goes. We have a new CAFS engine on order that is to be delivered end of 09. Trying to decide for sure what we want to do as far as stocking the new apparatus with nozzles. I did order a couple of the new Elkhart nozzles to try, very curious what your thoughts are once your training is completed. And for that matter how the Waterous training goes, we ordered a Waterous CAFS as well and will be having the training here after delivery.

    Thanks
    Rick
    Rick Gustad - Chief
    Platte Volunteer Fire Department
    www.plattevfd.com

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    I'd get the Elkhart regional guy up to demo the Flexattack before I ordered. Same guy as covers Iowa I think. I'm concerned that it apparently has no fog capability with water.

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    NEIOWA - Any results on your nozzle testing? Our CAFS pumper is due here by the end of May and we are still in the air about which nozzle style/brand to get.

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    Yes, spent a couple hours trying out various nozzles on Sat. The advice we had received from Waterous (and as discuss in various forum here) we found to be sound. Shutoff with removable tip is the way to go (and economical).

    We're going to order be pistol shutoffs/breakaparts with 15/16" removable tips. Wet with tip (0.3% foam) and remove tip for dry (20% valve and 0.8% foam). Not sexy but works well and inexpensive. Seems to be the consense of industry for best performance and flexibility to do both wet and dry CAFS.

    The Elkhart Flexattack and TFT CAFS Force don't do particularly well on dry CAFS. Both stripped out to many bubbles on dry CAFS. Foam was running off the tree truck. With open shuttoff/butt dry "shaving cream" was sticking nicely to the tree/wall (exposure protection/wildland interface). Flexattack can has a water option but is smoothbore no fog option. It is possible we used the TFT incorrectly for dry as it does breakapart and we did not use it minus the tip. But on Wet CAFS you could hear air roaring as if flowed (stripped bubbles). May try this nozzle again but they are expensive and TFT is typically not much the nozzles of choice around Eastern Iowa anyhow.

    Elkhart Solidstrike is an interesting item but doesn't have big enough bore for decent wet CAFS and strips to many bubbles for decent dry CAFS. Has 3 different smooth bore sizes by moving the bail from 1/2" to 1" as I recall).

    Saberjet does ok on wet CAFS but no way to do dry CAFS.

    Going to try out an Akron 1-1/2" ZeroTorque (ZT) before we order. I've used the 2-1/2" which allows one FF to comfortably handle a 2-1/2". With water not much reason to buy a ZT in an 1-1/2". With CAFS have significantly more nozzle reaction and the ZT could be useful.

    I'm thinking will order 2x 1-1/2" pistol shutoff and 2x 1-1/2" ZT breakparts. 4x 15/16" tips. And a 1-3/8" extended tip for the bumper mounted Sidewinder R/C.

    Might (might) also order a couple of removable Turbojet or Assault tips. But I doubt it as have Turbojets on the crosslays.

    I think will also order 1x low expansion foam tube and 1x Med Exp foam tube for aspirated foam for use with the crosslay Turbojets.

    Our system is a Hale 1000gpm QPak (midship) with Waterous PTO CAFS retrofit 140cfm compressor. Foam pump is the new Waterous Aquis 2.5. Very nice controller. 3000gal water and 20gal form (Chemguard A+). Waterous kit was very well put together and installed smoothly. Extended the front bumper with a 2-1/2" CAFS supply to the left and to the right side of front bumper. Left side has a 2-1/2" swivel with gated Wye and right is a R/C Elkhart Sidewinder monitor. Installed Elkhart's new Intelligent CAF Selector (ICS) for Unibody electric valves. This is apparently one of the 1st installs completed. ICS has presets for Dry, Medium, Wet CAFS. Controller operates the air and water and balances. Also has CAFS On/Off button. One button on Starts CAFS and opens air/water valves full for wet CAFS (interior attack). Can program for what settings you want for Dry, Medium, Wet CAFS. I guess you give up a little (little) bit of flexibility in making changes to your settings but more than compensated in the KISS factor. Work very well I think and I'd recommend. http://www.elkhartbrass.com/pages/company-press/UICS2

    New on the pump panel has the Aquis controller, ICS controller for the left bumper CAFS, Autosync and foam level guage. Console in Cab has ICS for right bumper CAFS (Sidewinder), PTO shift, and Sidewinder joystick. Sidewinder is obviously NOT pump/roll. I put it in as for use on our last "Big One". Use on arrivable for exposure protection/unmanned monitor while get our foldatanks set up. Also may have use on ditch/car fires. Or may be waste of $. But chief indulged me. Sidewinder is on a quick release mount so can potentially future could move to our brush truck as required (water only with fog nozzle).

    As far as I've figured out this is the 2nd CAFS engine in Iowa so we haven't had anything to compare to or observe. Pretty much figuring it out on or own.

    Our fielding trainer from Waterous was John Roads out of Arizona. Wildland guy who really knows his stuff on CAFS. Gave us some great training in basics of water, foam, CAFS how it works (which we needed). About 4 hours. Then hands on trying nozzles and running the CAF system and then we did some pallet fires. One thing I think would be very helpful from someone in the fire industry or Waterous would be some canned training/demo lesson plans for use in fielding. The capability of CAFS is totally different than water and demonstrating this to yourself is impossible with a pallet fire. When hear 40gal of H2O to knock down a fully involved house it's something want to see for yourself.
    Last edited by neiowa; 04-08-2009 at 11:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hilgerone View Post
    NEIOWA - Any results on your nozzle testing? Our CAFS pumper is due here by the end of May and we are still in the air about which nozzle style/brand to get.

    Get ahold of the vendors that service your area and they can loan you demo nozzles from Akron, Elkhart, TFT etc. Or they can bring in the mfg regional reps. Easy to do if you want to do some testing of your own. But if you're getting the mfg try to bring in all of them at the same time. All have the greatest thing since sliced bread (compared to the other guy) and let each have the same opportunity to tell their story.

    I didn't see a reason to spend big $ on a "CAFS nozzle" as they did not perform any better with wet CAFS than a shutoff with a solid bore tip and were worse for dry. This is $350 vs $700+ per nozzle. If for some reason down the road you find a need the "fog backup" add on a Assault adjustible nozzle to your shutoff for $300 and you're still $ ahead. Can likely get an even cheaper shutoff from the brand X imports but I don't think the small saving here is worth it. Can't go wrong with the major brands for long term durability and performance. We've just always used Akron, are very well satisfied, and have no particular reason to switch brands.

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    Getting our hands on a few different nozzles was in my gameplan. Gotta try them hands on. Still leaning toward the pistol grip shut off and 15/16 as you recommended.

    Luckily, we have a excellent house that we will be burning as part of the Waterous training so we will really get some good first hand experience.

    Take it easy and be safe.

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