Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    27

    Default smooth bore on 1 3/4

    First off, thanks for the replies to my first post. Here is another question for all of you out there.
    Does anyone out there use smooth bore nozzles on their 1 3/4" hoselines? If so, answer a couple of questions please.
    What size nozzle, and what is your flow?
    How long have you been using the smoothbore?
    Did you transition from all fog nozzles to an option of fog or smooth bore?
    If you did transition, how well received was this transition?

    Please, let's keep the fog vs smooth bore debate in another forum, we are all aware of the advantages and disadvantages. This is simply an inquiry as to how many people out there are set up in this fashion.

    One more thing, could you please include a short bio of your department? How big, how many fires, urban, rural, or interface? Thanks guys, I appreciate your input. This is helping me deliver information to the people I answer to.


  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Greensboro, NC USA
    Posts
    1,294

    Default

    My Dept uses a 15/16" tip, with a 50 psi nozzle pressure to get 180 GPM. We pump a 200' line at 150 psi.

    It rocks with not too much reaction force.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    60

    Default

    We kinda use one with our cafs. Not sure of the size on the bore but I know its a TFT. Its really a combo nozzle. Bale half way for cafs an all the way forward for fog. Our pressure depends on what we are trying to accomplish less pressure with cafs than water.

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Bellingham, WA USA
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toutdoors View Post
    First off, thanks for the replies to my first post. Here is another question for all of you out there.
    Does anyone out there use smooth bore nozzles on their 1 3/4" hoselines? If so, answer a couple of questions please.
    What size nozzle, and what is your flow?
    How long have you been using the smoothbore?
    Did you transition from all fog nozzles to an option of fog or smooth bore?
    If you did transition, how well received was this transition?

    Please, let's keep the fog vs smooth bore debate in another forum, we are all aware of the advantages and disadvantages. This is simply an inquiry as to how many people out there are set up in this fashion.

    One more thing, could you please include a short bio of your department? How big, how many fires, urban, rural, or interface? Thanks guys, I appreciate your input. This is helping me deliver information to the people I answer to.
    Yes, we use smooth bore nozzles.....15/16" dues to our CAF's capabilities

    Flow is approx. 150gpm with a 200' 1.75" hoseline (see my post in engineer section)

    Switched to smooth bore on our two crosslays 3 years ago but kept an 1.75" adjustable fog nozzle hoseline on the front bumper (breakaway).

    The transition was seamless, as the 15/16" smooth bores were explained to all members as the optimal nozzle for CAFS (and CAFS was new to us).

    As far as a bio of my dept............we are a combi dept with 6 career and 40 voly's. we run more than 1,000 calls out of two stations and cover all types of areas, from suburbs to commercial and industrial (also an airport) to trailer parks and wide open undeveloped land.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    83

    Default

    Our #1 crosslay is a 1' Smooth bore on 200ft of "high-combat" 1.75 hose. We estimate flow to be around 200gpm, but I know it gets pumped a lil lower for some of the smaller members of the dept. Everyone here seems to like it, myself included. Every once in a while a dissenter will speak, but never been an issue. Switched to it many years before my time, in 1992 I think, and haven't been replaced since. I would imagine we'll be going to 15/16 eventually. #2 crosslay is a fog, as is the bumper line. #1 almost always get pulled first, and #2 or the 2 inch hose w/ 1 1/8 smooth bore out of the bed as back up.

    Dept is career. Has 4 stations, 3 engines and a truck. Mostly new construction residential, some commercial, some residential high rise, and some urban interface.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    781

    Default

    My department uses a 15/16ths on the 1 and 3/4" hose. We are a 2 station Fire/EMS department with 60% residential (bungalows to mcmansions) and the rest commercial and light/medium industrial and runs total 4500 yearly.

    We have found it to be the optimal size and gives a large volume of water (185 gpm) when pumped properly. The reaction force for the gpm is about the best for one man to handle, 69 psi (if ever required (ie: 3 man attack that comes across a victim and the other 2 remove and keep 1 on the tip)).

    Now, I am currently also with another department that runs 7/8" tips (155 gpm) and had been on another that had 1" (210 gpm). The only issue is that the current department over pumps the line (adversely making more RF to Gpm output) (If you pumped the 7/8ths" at 60 psi tip you'd get 176 gpm but would have 72 psi RF). Conversely the previous department wanted to under pump the 1" and they got 190 gpm but the line kinked consistantly every fire.

    You may have heard the old saying "never have an oriface on the nozzle larger that 1/2 the diameter of the hose". With the modern 1 and 3/4" hose you DO accomplish this.... The truth is (depending on your mfg of hose) they build the hose to 1 and 7/8ths" to reduce the FL in the hose. This is why there is a lot of discrepancies in the flow charts for 1 and 3/4" hose and actual fireground flow calculations.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

  7. #7
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,645

    Default

    Vol department, 2 stations.

    1 station uses only smooth bores on their lines.

    My station uses Akron Break apart nozzles. Smoothbore slug is 7/8".

    200' crosslays, nozzle is a 175/75. Flow between 170-180.

    No calculations....tested with flowmeter.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    No calculations....tested with flowmeter.
    AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!

  9. #9
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Thumbs up Well...........

    Kinda hard to answer the Question, since we do not use 1 3/4 hose. We have 1 1/2 and 2 inch, and have been using slug tips for some time now. Tips seem to do OK for us, no one is complaining anyway.........
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    27

    Default

    Thanks for the replies folks, I appreciate it. Am trying to get the "white shirts" to allow for some lattitude in looking at somethings we have not been doing. We will see how that goes.

  11. #11
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,196

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toutdoors View Post
    Thanks for the replies folks, I appreciate it. Am trying to get the "white shirts" to allow for some lattitude in looking at somethings we have not been doing. We will see how that goes.
    A suggestion. Get the as you call them "white shirts" to contact vendors. Akron, Elkhardt, TFT and any other you may know of. Have each vendor loan you guys a nozzle or two to test. Don't get the vendors show up the same day as they will try to influnce the department over the orther nozzle make. Field test them for several weeks or months. Make sure the vendors know your plans and should their nozzle get damage your department will not be held accountable.

    We did this years back and do it regular on other items, from PPE, nozzles, tools, etc.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    27

    Default

    Capt,
    That is what we are planning to do. We have vendors lined up for later this spring/ early summer. As such, we are looking at who is doing what out there with nozzles. We would like to keep the pickings rather slim. That is to say, we don't want to look at 3 dozen different colors, and shapes, and configurations of fog nozzles, and smooth bores.
    We have a general idea of what we want, so we are going to look at those items, and try to be open minded about one or two other options.

    Our biggest thing is that we have used select gallonage nozzles since who knows when. Then our last chief, in his short two year term, tried to push automatics on us. Reason being, that is what his old department did. We will look at automatics, but in my honest opinion, I am not in favor of them. I have used them, and was not crazy about them.

    I think we will end up with select gallonage nozzles but I also want to explore the options of how many folks are using the smooth bore on 1 3/4, what size orfice, and what are the gpm and pump pressures.

    Thanks folks.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    781

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toutdoors View Post
    Capt,
    That is what we are planning to do. We have vendors lined up for later this spring/ early summer. As such, we are looking at who is doing what out there with nozzles. We would like to keep the pickings rather slim. That is to say, we don't want to look at 3 dozen different colors, and shapes, and configurations of fog nozzles, and smooth bores.
    We have a general idea of what we want, so we are going to look at those items, and try to be open minded about one or two other options.

    Our biggest thing is that we have used select gallonage nozzles since who knows when. Then our last chief, in his short two year term, tried to push automatics on us. Reason being, that is what his old department did. We will look at automatics, but in my honest opinion, I am not in favor of them. I have used them, and was not crazy about them.

    I think we will end up with select gallonage nozzles but I also want to explore the options of how many folks are using the smooth bore on 1 3/4, what size orfice, and what are the gpm and pump pressures.

    Thanks folks.
    size 15/16ths, flows 185 @50 psi tip pressure, fl per 100 feet = 40, reaction force = 69 psi ( for an offensive attack it has been stated that a ff should be able to handle 1/2 of their weight in rf for a standard attack duration)
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    26

    Default smoothbore

    The rule of thumb is your nozzle should not be more than half the diameter of the hose. I you look at 2 1/2 inch hose, the largest tip size you will see is 1 1/4. Therefore 1 3/4 hose should have a 7/8 inch tip. This will give you 180 gpm @ 50 psi.
    PGFD

  15. #15
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    5/16" smooth bore with 40psi tip pressure. Works like a charm and if memory serves me, it dumps 150gpm with very little effort on the part of the crew or the truck. Again if memory serves me, this is the same GPM we get out of the brass marching band automatic fog nozzle.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    781

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allpro View Post
    The rule of thumb is your nozzle should not be more than half the diameter of the hose. I you look at 2 1/2 inch hose, the largest tip size you will see is 1 1/4. Therefore 1 3/4 hose should have a 7/8 inch tip. This will give you 180 gpm @ 50 psi.
    allpro... look at my first post on this thread. It isn't actually truly 1 and 3/4" hose they mfg nowadays. That is the book answer. The practical answer is it works extremely well for interior fire attacks to use a 15/16ths and that was found through various testing and implementation on quite a few departments. The best gpm, with usable reaction (for your attack crews), and not accumulating a exorbitant amount of FL is why we choose the 15/16ths in my department. That is also why the mfg's pump charts seem high when you actually pitot the lines, we have seen fl on charts state as high as 55 psi per 100' of 1 and 3/4. Whereas it is near 40 psi per 100' of "newer" 1 and 3/4" hose.

    When I mention reaction forces, remember this line is not used as an exterior defensive line, meaning we aren't flowing it for one hour at a time in the standing position. The use is as an interior attack line that is flowing usually in 10 to 30 second intervals.

    On that subject FYI, this guy gave a great classroom session at FDIC. Check it out Engine Company Operations: Gallons per Second by Curt Isakson, Escambia County (FL) Fire Rescue if t comes around next year.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    64

    Default

    15/16 on a 150 foot 1 3/4" preconnect 50psi nozzle pressure to achieve about 175gpm give or take the engine pressure is about 80. we have 4 main preconnects on all of our trucks two 1 3/4" and two 2 1/2". We used to be all fog, but about 10 years ago we changed to combination 1 fog 1 smooth bore on each of the both sizes. Everyone was receptive to this as you have people with their own preferences on nozzle use so it keeps everyone happy. The 1 3/4" lines the smooth bore and the fog get pulled equally as much, but the 2 1/2 the smooth bore is pulled first 99% of the time because as an attack nozzle a 2 1/2 is more manageable at 50psi nozzle pressure as opposed to a fog at 100psi nozzle pressure. We look at the 2 1/2 fog as a defensive line, such as exposure protection and exterior attack where u dont have to move the line much. All of our nozzles we use AKRON the smooth bores are stacked tips cause we also carry the 1/4" mop up tip. Like i said tho for us it kept everyone happy because at my station the guys on our engine all prefer the smooth bore and at the other station the guys are mixed but predominantly fog and with the 3 engines being set up exactly the same it keeps everyone happy.

  18. #18
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,196

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toutdoors View Post
    Capt,
    That is what we are planning to do. We have vendors lined up for later this spring/ early summer. As such, we are looking at who is doing what out there with nozzles. We would like to keep the pickings rather slim. That is to say, we don't want to look at 3 dozen different colors, and shapes, and configurations of fog nozzles, and smooth bores.
    We have a general idea of what we want, so we are going to look at those items, and try to be open minded about one or two other options.

    Our biggest thing is that we have used select gallonage nozzles since who knows when. Then our last chief, in his short two year term, tried to push automatics on us. Reason being, that is what his old department did. We will look at automatics, but in my honest opinion, I am not in favor of them. I have used them, and was not crazy about them.

    I think we will end up with select gallonage nozzles but I also want to explore the options of how many folks are using the smooth bore on 1 3/4, what size orfice, and what are the gpm and pump pressures.

    Thanks folks.


    OK just get the Elkhart salesperson to bring in some of their nozzles.

    We use a 1" tip on a ball valve on the 1-3/4" hose line, and pump 50 plus 10. so at 200 feet we would pump about 70 to 75 PSI and get the 209 GPM or so. Easy to handle by one member working in housing projects or apts.

    Good reach and knock down stream. If if get too much for the members, they can always close the valve some and get a broken stream.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  19. #19
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,575

    Default

    Our 1.75" attack lines have combo nozzles, our standpipe/high rise kits have the breakapart nozzles with slug tips. Preconnected deuce and a halfs have both combos and smoothbores.

    We do have some 7/8th smoothbore nozzles on the rigs, mostly used for penetration of deep seated fires.

    FD: career FD, 4 groups, 19 personnel per group at full staffing, 13 is minuimum staffing level.

    3 stations, 3 engines, 1 Aerial (new tower ladder coming, then we will have 2aerials in service depending on staffing) and a medium Rescue frontline, 1 reserve pumper, (soon to be two when the new Engine gets here) and 7 support vehicles (includes the brush fire unit and the air unit).

    5700 runs average per year over the last 3 years.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 05-07-2009 at 04:20 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  20. #20
    Forum Member BKDRAFT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Bay Area, California
    Posts
    1,146

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toutdoors View Post
    First off, thanks for the replies to my first post. Here is another question for all of you out there.
    Does anyone out there use smooth bore nozzles on their 1 3/4" hoselines? If so, answer a couple of questions please.
    What size nozzle, and what is your flow?
    How long have you been using the smoothbore?
    Did you transition from all fog nozzles to an option of fog or smooth bore?
    If you did transition, how well received was this transition?

    Please, let's keep the fog vs smooth bore debate in another forum, we are all aware of the advantages and disadvantages. This is simply an inquiry as to how many people out there are set up in this fashion.

    One more thing, could you please include a short bio of your department? How big, how many fires, urban, rural, or interface? Thanks guys, I appreciate your input. This is helping me deliver information to the people I answer to.
    1 3/4" 15/16" smooth bore flowing 195 GPM
    Begin with the break away tip nozzles where you have the option of smooth bore or fog. Transition was well received.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Fog vs. Smooth Bore
    By FyrFyter510 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 11-01-2008, 06:51 AM
  2. smooth bore or fog tip
    By jstapert09 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-06-2008, 11:17 AM
  3. Smooth bore Vs. Fog
    By Firefletch67 in forum Florida
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-03-2007, 12:05 PM
  4. Smooth bore vs Fog
    By HFRH28 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-06-2004, 04:39 PM
  5. smooth bore or fog
    By cmack in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-14-2001, 10:08 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts