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Thread: I need help!

  1. #1
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    Default I need help!

    Ok guys. I need some major help. After thinking about a tanker grant I have just realized its a priority 2 vehicle for a suburban dept. and just not gonna happen. We really need for our industrial / business district after a Million Dollar tire warehouse fire showed us that our lack of water is more disturbing than we thought.
    Well now, Im looking at High Expansion foam systems, but having very little luck finding a delivery system that fits our needs. Im looking for some sort of trailer, that is self sufficient. Just hook it up to supply line and go. Anyone know anything that might fit our need? Ive been all over the web and found nothing.
    I thank you in advance for your assistance. I know everyone is busy as usual at this time of the year.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Attack6 View Post
    Ok guys. I need some major help. After thinking about a tanker grant I have just realized its a priority 2 vehicle for a suburban dept. and just not gonna happen. We really need for our industrial / business district after a Million Dollar tire warehouse fire showed us that our lack of water is more disturbing than we thought.
    Well now, Im looking at High Expansion foam systems, but having very little luck finding a delivery system that fits our needs. Im looking for some sort of trailer, that is self sufficient. Just hook it up to supply line and go. Anyone know anything that might fit our need? Ive been all over the web and found nothing.
    I thank you in advance for your assistance. I know everyone is busy as usual at this time of the year.
    I may be wrong, but if you really felt the tanker was what you needed during that fire, I would state that example in your narrative and go after the tanker.
    If you have identified the need for a tanker, hammer the reasons for it.

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    We had a tire fire in the next county over and they used some type of water addative to get penetration to the seat of the fire. Has the company offered or been asked to provide a onhand supply of extinguishing agent? The delivery system would just be a fire engine then eliminating the need for a special trailer that might be hard to justify with a competative cost/benefit. Unless the place burns down 10 times per year. Do you have an aerial or elevated master stream and when was the warehouse built. If it is a new construction or old I would think might help you meet a new risk to response area.

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    What is the major hazard/hazards you'll looking to suppress? Class A or B?

    My recommendation that would likely solve most warehouse fire issues (Class B) would be a CAFS pumper. This would be a Priority 1. Perhaps a CAFS pumper tanker that you could use as situation dictates. We just completed trainup Sat. on our Fire Grant CAFS tanker pumper - 3000gal with CAFS (Waterous 140cfm). This gets you the CAFS you need AND the tanker you want. Major benefit of CAFS is the tremendous reducion of water required to put the fire out and major reduction in water damage to the inventory/structure.

    Problem with high expansion foam in a warehouse is you start filling at the floor. You fire likely is going to be in racks x' in the air.

    CAFS also , I understand, is great for tire fires (piles of tires). CAFS is not for class B foam

    Plan B - For a hydrocarbon fire (or ethanol) you want a appartus (or trailer which is an equipment/better chance grant) with LOTS of Ar-AFFF on board. A 2 axle Chemguard trailer with 2x totes of 3x3 Ar-AFFF (330gal each), a 5" crossmounted intake manifold, monitor w/self eduction nozzle and ground base, 5" & 1-3/4" hosebeds, 1250gpm monitor, low and medium expansion foam nozzles for handlines etc will run you around $60000. Make sure you meet new 1901 trailer standards with emergency, ground, walkway/hosebed lights.

    All of the major foam suppliers have foam trailers similar.

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    MembersZone Subscriber lfdmichael's Avatar
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    Cool Don't waste your app. on a priority 2 vehicle

    I don't believe it would even make to to peer. Any one with priority 2 vehicles make it to peer here?

    I think the "Agent" you might be speaking of is called "F-500" not a foam but definitely kicks butt as an extinguisher and wetting agent for hydrocarbons.

    Don't know anything about the company but saw an add for foam trailers in firehouse this morning www.unitedplastics.com

    Ever think of modifying an existing vehicle for addition foam capabilities? I believe that might be an equipment proj. instead of vehicle. (not sure on that, would have to check PG)

    Good luck

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    We currently have a CAFs Engine from a 2006 grant. Our other engine has foam also. I can telll you that when 40,000 tires are burning, CAFs had little impact.
    Industrial corridor has churches, 3 large car dealerships, restaurants, a heavy equipment dealership, and greenhouses. The tire warehouse, and autoshop is being rebuilt.
    I guess Im just thinking out loud to myself here, and trying to figure something out. The fire actually started on the floor and spread upwards. Not sure what we could have done differently, just trying to maximize what little water supply we have.
    We have been very blessed on the DHS grants, so this year was just thinking of our business corridor, which is only about 20% of our total coverage area.
    Thanks for all the replies.
    Going to check that 5-500 now.

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    I know it may push the time limit on you, but there are always a few of them at FDIC if you can make it up that way (Trailers). I have a local apparatus manufacturer that can probably give you about any info you need on CAFS if you would like his info, just give me a shout. I believe that there were several of the foam trailers that were given out last year, I think I read a few of the narratives. Also something to remember is that a specific % of the funds are required to be used for foam & foam equipment. Got my posting up after your above posting telling about the CAFS. The F-500 is not recognized by ISO, I know that because we had to do an emergency purchase just to get enough foam on hand to cover all of our trucks.
    Last edited by Limeforever; 04-07-2009 at 11:55 AM.

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    Have you thought about a pumper-tanker? If I'm thinking right, that should get it in the pumper category (>750 pump) and into a priority 1. You can use the need for the extra water as part of your justification for the apparatus.

    You might also be able to look at the idea of a foam trailer. A certain percentage is supposed to go toward foam projects, so you might get into that niche. Maybe a trailer with a pretty good-size tank and a good-sized foam tank. You could set it up to draft out of the water tank, or maybe even with an on-board pump.

    If you've got an airport nearby, some petro storage, or other hazards, you've got some additional justification built into a foam project.

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    Trailer would probably be about the lone shot, and I just saw pics of someone's for a military airport. Trailer mounted pump and huge foam tank on it for B foam. Since it's all hydrant supported it's a tow and go master stream foam buggy. With the new pumper you're not going to hit the computer very hard with a fleet age asking for a 2nd one and with the amount of people I found this year from workshop travel that didn't realize you get two AFG apps the count will probably be over 10,000 vehicle apps. For maybe 600 awards. Priority 2 apps will go out quick. In the last 2 years less than 20 have made Peer so not likely in 2009 either.

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    Foam trailers typically are purchased for Class B and since rise of ethanol usually Ar-AFFF. Little point on using this expensive stuff on a solid.

    Talked to our Chemguard rep. He agrees not enough H2O in CAFS to do the job on a tire fire. Says you need apirated Type A foam such as First Class (USDA). This is Class “A” Foam Concentrate and Wetting Agent.

    Install your Akron Akrofoam nozzle on your monitor (ground base likely). Run a 1%. Quantity needed???

    Maybe a trailer w/monitor set up and stock of a couple totes of 3-3 Ar-AFFF (ethanol/hydrocarbon) and one or two totes of First Class.


    http://www.chemguard.com/fire-suppre...iew.aspx?id=42

    Foam Generator (rather specialized)
    http://www.chemguard.com/fire-suppre...iew.aspx?id=14
    Last edited by neiowa; 04-07-2009 at 04:07 PM.

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    And when the need for the water buffaloes arise Tom, you can call in the reinforcements from down over the mountain. We would have been glad to come over and tote water for you all.

    Kelly

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    Check with your county EMA Director. Somerset Co has a foam trailer. Not 100% certain, but I believe it may have come through Region 13. Cambria may have gotten one too. You could at least look them over and see if its what you want

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    Do both. Go for CAFS pumper/tanker on vehicle app and foam trailer under equipment grant. Worst case would be where you are now. Best case would be getting one of the two. Lightning striking twice would be just outrageous for you. Might give you flexibility for place trailer at one station and engine at another. In no case should you go for a #2 priority. IMHO.
    Last edited by firedude801; 04-08-2009 at 01:22 PM. Reason: typo

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    Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Will probably look into a trailer for the grant. With a new CAFS engine and 6yo attack, our average age of vehicles will not help in the computer scoring.
    Imafireman, you dont know how close you were to making that long trip over the hill. I do know that the next time, you guys will be there.
    What is the status of that new tanker for you guys? Havent heard from you in a while.

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    We could have been there in under 30 minutes I feel sure!! We took delivery the first week of January and placed it in service not long after that. We were awarded hose and nozzles this year and SCBA last, so we are equipped with pretty much all new equipment on it. Every time one of our members drives it on a call for the first time, we sing Happy Birthday to them!! I guess you could say it is an in-house joke!! To be honest, it was a very long and trying "adventure" from the time of award to delivery. We were worried the old one would not last long enough, but we made it through. If you are down in our area sometime, feel free to stop in and check it out. Or you could always page us out to haul water for you. We can give you 3000 gallons a pop!! Talk to you soon Tom and Good Luck this year.

    Kelly

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    Quote Originally Posted by ff4two View Post
    Check with your county EMA Director. Somerset Co has a foam trailer. Not 100% certain, but I believe it may have come through Region 13. Cambria may have gotten one too. You could at least look them over and see if its what you want
    I know we have one in Somerset County that came through region 13 and believe it is part of the county haz-mat team but not sure. I know it is store with all the region 13 equipment.

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