Thread: New Engine.

  1. #1
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    Question New Engine.

    We have been researching a new custom engine and after roughly specing a custom engine we have some money. After talking to several reps they are saying anywhere from $450,000 and up. Here is a rough idea and I need some feed back, are these numbers super inflated? Any help would be great we will have $535,000 in Nov 09 to buy new engine and probably not sooner.
    Custom cab 10" RR 6 man cab
    1500 GPM
    750 H20
    simple a FOAM with capability to use B foam
    big block motor
    PTO gen
    command light
    cord reel
    real doors not roll-up
    alum wheels
    nicely equiped
    all led lights and a lot more scene lights.
    Please help. Cant trust any salesmen right know.

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    No, $450k plus isn't too far off at all, and I would expect to pay more than that, honestly. I know of a department that had a bid opening a few months ago in which the bids were $575,000 to $615,000 for a standard pumper. THOSE prices were a bit high for a number of reasons, but $500,000 for a rescue pumper, especially one with a big block motor and 4000-EVS transmission is going to cost a lot of money.

    On a side note, roll-up doors aren't real?

    Finally, you don't have ANY sales people that you trust in your area?
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    For that kind of money, you can have a really nice engine with all the bells and whistles. However, as you should be aware, not all sales people are that great. Do not tell them what you have to spend. Tell them what you want on the engine and then start specing it out with each rep.

    Be precise in each area of the engine, and if able there are a few books out there that will help you in the process of purchasing a new engine.

    Good Luck!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    On a side note, roll-up doors aren't real?

    Finally, you don't have ANY sales people that you trust in your area?

    ugh, does everyone have to try and pick fights here?


    the guy doesnt like roll up doors, could have said it better, but is it really worth getting worked up over?

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    Default More info please.

    First if there is any way to move your purchase up sooner do so. Have any of the sales people you have talked with explained the upcoming change to all truck engines due to the new EPA regulations? If you are not going to buy until the end of the year you will probably end up with a 2010 EPA compliant engine which will add 6 to 10 thousand depending on the engine selection you make. Also in that selection process you might end up with having to deal with urea.

    As far as providing a price here you are not really providing enough info to get anything more that a shot in the dark price. How much does a car cost? You looking at a Ford Escort, Caddy or a Rolls Royce?
    Big block motor? How big. Do you need a big block motor? Could an L series 425 hp Cummins do you just fine. You save big money with one of those and a 3000 series Allison over a larger engine and the 4000 series transmission. Why buy something you don't need? I deliver trucks in my area, mountainous area, with the 400 and 425 engines and they work just fine. And most have 1,000 gallons of water not 750.

    PTO generator? What size, 6, 8 or 10 kilowatts? I use the $1,500.00 per kilowatt rule for ball parking a PTO gen set. Command light? What model? Those can range in price form 5 or 6 thousand to 15 to 20 depending on which one you select. Body material, steel, aluminum or stainless?
    What does nicely equipped mean? Shelves and trays in the compartments? Pull out tool boards. Seating for 4, 6, 8 more? AM/FM CD player in the cab? Does that mean equipment such as hose, nozzles, jaws, all the new NFPA required equipment with the truck?

    I know of two nicely spec'ed custom pumpers that are available right now that can be had for around 350K. Cummins ISL 400 hp engine, (6) seats, severe duty extended front bumper with chevron striping, aluminum wheels, LED Roto-Ray, two-tone cab paint, LED warning light package, rear LED directional light bar, Q2B siren, 8KW hydraulic/pto generator, (4) 750 watt telescopic lights, electric cord reel, 1500 GPM pump, rear suction, 500 gallon poly tank, Foam Pro 2002 foam system w/25 & 60 gallon foam tanks just to mention the basics of them.

    I also know of a few custom pumpers that are out there in the 450 to 500 range. I don't know where you are located but if you shoot me an email so I can get some more info from you I'll give you an idea what you should be looking at for price. And I can't believe you can't find a salesmen out there that you can trust. Yes, there are some that are questionable but you should be able to find one!

    northguy001@comcast.net

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    ugh, does everyone have to try and pick fights here?
    Worked up, nah, I just wanted to see why they're not real.

    I think you'll find I'm one of the ones on here that doesn't try to pick fights.

    No harm, no foul, bro.
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    I'd rather have a ROM roll up than a damn pan door (that you can leave at the station) but that's just me.For what you're looking for I'd start at about 500K and you MAY be able to do better.As Tom says,the sooner you can buy,the better you can do.The 2010's are going to have some issues and they ARE going to cost more.We got in on the ISM program on our Platform,no DPF or any junk, just a normal exhaust.How much longer you can do that,I don't know.Good luck. T.C.

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    Default Suprised

    Tim, I'm surprised you didn't take me to task about my engine comment you being a big bore fan.

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    We purchased a new engine last Nov. for $327,000 with most of the equipment you listed, except the bigblock (ours has a cummins isl 400hp) add $30k , and the light tower, add $15k, also add $15k for new 09 NFPA.
    Another good source to look at is "fire apparatus and equipment magizine" they usually have at least 2 pages a month with new apparatus that has been put into service and the prices they were sold for.

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    The ISL is an OK engine.It's just not OK in MY Engine(or Ladder).A lot of people use the ISL with great success.I'm not going to TASK you until you find a REAL job.How's that coming anyway? I should have some updates for you soon. T.C.

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    Talking yah

    The only salemen that has been any help is the pierce guy. I dont want to here no coolaid crap, save that for other forums, the rool up doors are a dept joke. A lot of depts arounf here buy pierce and are happy, it seems there price is not as bad as others say. But they have a dealership and shop 75 miles away which would be helpful. Looked at a PUC last week and was interesting, already read other forums on it. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    ugh, does everyone have to try and pick fights here?


    the guy doesnt like roll up doors, could have said it better, but is it really worth getting worked up over?
    Wow, a whole new thing we can fight over! We already have leather lids vs. plastic, leather boots vs. rubber, smoothbore vs. fog, volly vs. paid, red apparatus vs. anything else....now we can add roll-up doors vs. "real" doors....cool!
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    C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

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    We don't/won't buy anything besides a roll-up,If you want pans,I guess you can have what you want.If Pierce is your deal,and there's good service nearby,same story. You asked for input and got it.Pick and choose to suit your needs. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chief41 View Post
    We purchased a new engine last Nov. for $327,000 with most of the equipment you listed, except the bigblock (ours has a cummins isl 400hp) add $30k , and the light tower, add $15k, also add $15k for new 09 NFPA.
    Another good source to look at is "fire apparatus and equipment magizine" they usually have at least 2 pages a month with new apparatus that has been put into service and the prices they were sold for.

    You also now have to have Chevrons, AED, Roll Stability, black box, flares, vests etc..

    Unpainted roll up doors are cheaper than painted "Real Doors".

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    Quote Originally Posted by baja320 View Post
    You also now have to have Chevrons, AED, Roll Stability, black box, flares, vests etc..

    Unpainted roll up doors are cheaper than painted "Real Doors".
    "add $15k for new 09 NFPA" That includes the above.
    The builders we talked to said there was no difference in the price with either door type.

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    One of several examples of how barn (swing, pan) doors are fair game as places to mount tools!
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    Last edited by chiefengineer11; 04-10-2009 at 09:11 PM.

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    Post Engine

    I don't know where you're located but try Custom Fire Apparatus. I do not sell for them. Just a member of a dept which is extremely happy with the sales and service. They build solid apparatus and are extrememly honest folks. My dept has purchased an engine, a rescue and had them place a slide out tray and a light, siren and graphic package on a pick up.

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    we are gettign ready to get a new KME Rescue Engine with:
    Command Light
    Foam Pro 2000 A only
    All LED lights
    500 gwt
    1250 pump
    425 HP Cat
    15 kw hydraulic genset
    6 seats
    1 200' cord reeel
    2 100' hydraulic reels
    Almumin wheels
    front 2.5" discharge w/trash line
    coffin compts
    aluminum hose bed cover for 423K
    deliver late May early June
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    We finally got our American La France Rescue/Engine that was ordered over 2, almost 3 years ago I believe.

    6 man cab
    All LED
    Hyd. Ladder Rack
    1250 Gal Pump
    1000 Gal Tank
    Class A/Class B foam tanks
    2 speedlays/1 crosslay
    command light
    top mount pump
    2- 100' hydraulic reels

    Unsure about generator size, engine size, etc....... wish we would have got coffins....but no real need for them as we have a full sized rescue squad as well.

    Ill start my own thread so I dont hijack this one with pictures.
    Last edited by backsteprescue; 04-11-2009 at 08:10 PM.
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    post the pics SILLY !!!!!!!!!!!
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weruj1 View Post
    post the pics SILLY !!!!!!!!!!!
    Pardon me sir, but I believe we are all over here...... http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=107754






    ***Note- I have wanted to say that for a while now! And its more like "Pardon me sir, but I am over here"....... since no one else has even looked at the thread yet
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    Default 450k is high

    You should be able to do that for under 400k. I don't know your area, but look at companies like 4guys,Toyne,Rosey, and Ferrara and you should have no problem getting it for under 400k.

    later

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    wy two cents worth. we purchased a smeal/spartan 6 man 10" raised roof etc. 1000 tank, 20gal foam, 1250 pump, cass a foam with side educt for class b. 6000 harrison hyd gen and 4 scene lights, two on rear tripod, nice unit oct 2006 for 238,890.00 called rep 3 mo ago to check price increase for ins and was told it would cost aprox 240-250,000.00. this is not with the new 1901 specs so like others said add for all that. we have the cummins 330 hp and 5sp allison and it rolls good and dont seam to be underpowered for our area(flat land)
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