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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Here, I saved you the trouble:

    1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. - has not happened, nor will it happen. Actually the Bush era policy of deciding that government can use Eminent Domain to take your property and give it to Wal-Mart to make more money in taxes would be the closest thing to this that I can think of

    2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. - People always bitch about taxes, so they will probably say that this applies.

    3. Abolition of all right of inheritance. - Find me any source that can cite Obama on abolishing inheritance

    4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. - Actually the conservative desire to deport the illegals and take their property to pay for the costs associated with the illegals would be the closest thing to this requirement.

    5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. - People are crying that Obama is centralizing the banks. Other than opinion pieces I have not seen any proof. I'll give Obama 1/2 a point for this requirement

    6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State. -There are 2 landline, 6 cell phone, and lots of VoIP providers trying to get me to switch to their service, so there is no Centralized communication. I'll give him 0.5 points for maybe having to back the big 3 (or 2, Ford is trying)

    7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. - Not happening

    8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. - Unions? they have been around long before Obama

    9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equal distribution of the population over the country. - Not happening, if anything more people are moving into towns looking for work

    10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c. - Been around forever, education vouchers that Bush proposed would be close to this as well.


    Looking from this Obama's policies cover 2 of the 10 requirements, and one of them is Taxes. People always bitch over taxes.

    Bush era policy would cover 2 as well, but different ones.

    But hey, the conservatives say that he is Marxist, so lets not do any research.

    After all these years, we are still scared of the communists.....
    Well you are correct in one thing, it has been eroding for 100 years.

    1. We have zoning, part way there and then there is that nasty property tax
    2. No brainer, been in existence since before I was a smile on daddy's face.
    3. Inheritance tax taxes everything over 600,000
    4. emigrants are different than illegal immigrants
    5. AIG, Citibank,Fannae Mae, Freddie Mac, Federal Reserve, need I say more
    6. Public transportation and they want to expand it.
    7. GM, Chrysler, Bailout Heaven, USDA.
    8. Minimum Wage, Now the capping of wages.
    9. On this one they have screwed up, they are trying to eliminate rural Americans
    10. LMAO!!!! I got a free high school education as does everyone in America. The elementary, junior high and senior high schools are controlled by the government. There are also many state run colleges that also give free or reduced fee educations.

    You have gotten yourself caught up in Partisan Politics. WAKE UP!@!!!!! It isn't just one party, both are screwing the American People, and apparently a lot of them enjoy it. Then again, I guess a lot of people like in the butt!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    We know a thing about you. You're not smart.
    We know one thing about you to. Your vocabulary consist of idiotboy, Obama, moonbat, Obama, fever swamp, Obama, conservative, Obama, liberal, Obama, Bankruptcy, Pelosi, Not a citizen, Pelosi, and Marx.

    At least I am smart enough to post sources for my post. Since you fabricate everything and have no sources you cannot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Well you are correct in one thing, it has been eroding for 100 years.

    1. We have zoning, part way there and then there is that nasty property tax zoning does not equal abolishing public land ownership, pre-Obama
    2. No brainer, been in existence since before I was a smile on daddy's face. so pre-Obama
    3. Inheritance tax taxes everything over 600,000 Paying taxes does not equal abolishing your inheritance - and pre-Obama
    4. emigrants are different than illegal immigrants not anything Obama is doing
    5. AIG, Citibank,Fannae Mae, Freddie Mac, Federal Reserve, need I say more Bailout = pre-Obama
    6. Public transportation and they want to expand it. Nothing happening with communication, still lots of different airline companies, cab companies, non-public transportation companies
    7. GM, Chrysler, Bailout Heaven, USDA. started under Bush; pre-Obama
    8. Minimum Wage, Now the capping of wages. minimum wage = pre-Obama; only capping wages of companies that took taxpayer money
    9. On this one they have screwed up, they are trying to eliminate rural Americans pre-obama
    10. LMAO!!!! I got a free high school education as does everyone in America. The elementary, junior high and senior high schools are controlled by the government. There are also many state run colleges that also give free or reduced fee educations. pre-Obama

    You have gotten yourself caught up in Partisan Politics. WAKE UP!@!!!!! It isn't just one party, both are screwing the American People, and apparently a lot of them enjoy it. Then again, I guess a lot of people like in the butt!!
    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Well he is pushing for 10 of 10 of the requirements as put fourth by Marx, if that is definitely Marxist.
    I got myself caught up in partisan politics? YOU said that Obama is establishing the 10 rules for marxism, then you turn around and list that this has been going on for a 100 years?

    Face it, you had no idea what the 10 rules were when you first talked about them, you were only repeating crap you heard on the radio/FoxNews/got in some e-mail. When I called you out you did a google search and posted your explanation. Except your explanation reinforces the point that this is not an orchestrated effort by Obama.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    I got myself caught up in partisan politics? YOU said that Obama is establishing the 10 rules for marxism, then you turn around and list that this has been going on for a 100 years?

    Face it, you had no idea what the 10 rules were when you first talked about them, you were only repeating crap you heard on the radio/FoxNews/got in some e-mail. When I called you out you did a google search and posted your explanation. Except your explanation reinforces the point that this is not an orchestrated effort by Obama.
    Yes I did, Obama is pushing us farther left than we are now. On a scale of -10 to +10, where -10 is socialism and +10 is capitalism we are around -5. Once we hit -10 we will be in full fledged communism. I first posted it on
    April-14-2009 At the link provided in response to something NozzleBrain had said.

    And I hate to disappoint you, bit I donít listen to conservative radio, I rarely watch Fox news, and the emails I get I verify (most of the time) Hence many of those never get repeated. I learned about Marx and the Communist Manifesto 35 years ago when our schools actually educated people.

    But you are obviously being partisan, with all of your deflecting blame from Obama and saying it is all Bushís fault.

    However:

    1. Zoning is a step in the direction of abolishing ownership of property. Telling me what I can do with my property is headed in that direction.
    2. You are showing partisanship.
    3. Paying inheritance tax is the first step to abolishing inheritance, We start at 600,000 and leave it there, soon the economy catches up and it is gone.
    4. You are showing partisanship. Again
    5. You are showing partisanship. Again. However, Obama continued and fired the CEO of GM. WTF!!!!
    6. Apparently you havenít heard about the effort to extend broadband and cell service, Ever hear of the FCC.
    7. Started under Jimmy Carter. You got that one way wrong.
    8. Minimum Wage, I donít care when it started, its wrong. Capping wages and allowing governments to control business is socialism.
    9. You are showing partisanship. Again
    10. You are showing partisanship. Again


    Whether it is pre-Obama or not doesnít really matter. The country is going the wrong direction, and is being pushed farther in the wrong direction. Stop playing the blame game and start defending our capitalistic values and freedom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Whether it is pre-Obama or not doesnít really matter. The country is going the wrong direction, and is being pushed farther in the wrong direction. Stop playing the blame game and start defending our capitalistic values and freedom.
    But it does matter, because you said that Obama is the one that put the 10 values in place. You said that Obama is marxist because he put the 10 guidelines into place, then turn around and say that we were following the guidelines for the last 100 years. I am not defending Obama, I am just tired of this anti-Obama bull. How can you put all the blame on him, when you yourself are saying that this has been going on for ages before him?

    And I hate to disappoint you. But OUR capitalistic values are what got us into this mess. Capitalism, minimal regulation, and greed is what got us into this mess. If you think that capitalism, minimal regulation, and greed will get us out of that mess than you are drinking the cool-aid.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    But it does matter, because you said that Obama is the one that put the 10 values in place. You said that Obama is marxist because he put the 10 guidelines into place, then turn around and say that we were following the guidelines for the last 100 years. I am not defending Obama, I am just tired of this anti-Obama bull. How can you put all the blame on him, when you yourself are saying that this has been going on for ages before him?
    What I said was "Well he is pushing for 10 of 10 of the requirements as put fourth by Marx, that is definitely Marxist." Now, look at the 10 items and tell me which ones he is backing off on. That was all in response to some knucklehead. It is anti-Obama because he isnít fixing anything; he is simply accelerating us down the wrong road. Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, and Truman, kept taking us down the wrong road to socialism. FDR put us on that road. The people voted for change, but this isnít the change we want, we are simply getting more of the same!

    And I hate to disappoint you. But OUR capitalistic values are what got us into this mess. Capitalism, minimal regulation, and greed is what got us into this mess. If you think that capitalism, minimal regulation, and greed will get us out of that mess than you are drinking the cool-aid.

    You are probably right about that. Workers demanding better wages and working conditions, go figure. We should adopt the communist model. You will work and like it and you will like the conditions and you will like the pay. (Sarcasm off) Like it or not, unions and higher wages are a direct result of capitalism.

    Heck, even with this mess, our standard of living is still way above those of any communist/socialist country. So the alternative is not any better. The regulations you are so fond of actually encouraged crooked businessmen to take advantage of the regulations. Think about it. When someone invests money in a business or with a broker, they do so believing they are above board because the government is regulating them. Take away the government regulation and the investor takes a little more effort to make sure their investments are placed with good reputable companies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idiotboy
    Take away the government regulation and the investor takes a little more effort to make sure their investments are placed with good reputable companies.
    Really? You assume that companies will always be above board in providing truthful information to investors?

    No wonder you're making minimum wage.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Really? You assume that companies will always be above board in providing truthful information to investors?

    No wonder you're making minimum wage.

    And you assume the government will be truthful???? The government has repeatedly shown that it cannot be trusted. Hell government canít even run their own offices effectively or efficiently. Itís fun to listen to the state workers around here. Everyone one of them can tell you about multiple folks in their offices who come and do nothing all day long.

    When did they raise the minimum wage to $30 an hour + bonuses + stocks + benefits?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Heck, even with this mess, our standard of living is still way above those of any communist/socialist country. So the alternative is not any better.
    Yup, because all of Europe (which are all varying degrees of socialist countries) is a 3rd world country.......
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And you assume the government will be truthful???? The government has repeatedly shown that it cannot be trusted. Hell government canít even run their own offices effectively or efficiently.
    And all the banks, brokers, realtors have repeatedly shown that they cannot be trusted. If there is one thing this mess has shown us is that business cannot regulate themselves.

    Ever tried putting B-shift on an honor system??? It doesn't work
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    This countries biggest problem is that we have been told over the last 50 years that Capitalism is God and that any slightest variation of socialism equals full blown communism.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    And all the banks, brokers, realtors have repeatedly shown that they cannot be trusted. If there is one thing this mess has shown us is that business cannot regulate themselves.

    Ever tried putting B-shift on an honor system??? It doesn't work
    So we can't trust the bankers, brokers, or realtors. We certainly canít trust the government, and who in the right mind would trust any of the 535 folks trying to ruin this country. Donít forget, those 535 on the hill are in the back pockets of all of those folks you just mentioned. They not only invested trillions of dollars of taxpayer money in those corporations but they gave them bonuses as well. And who did they fire? Who did they ask to make concessions?

    So who can we trust? The answer, each person must trust themselves to do the right thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    This countries biggest problem is that we have been told over the last 50 years that Capitalism is God and that any slightest variation of socialism equals full blown communism.
    Nope, the biggest problems are the lazy that sit back and wait for the government to provide for their needs. And our government makes it easy. All you have to do is go see Dr. SummerOff. Socialist trying to control capitalism; I believe they have names like Mussolini and Hitler. Capitalism and freedom made this country great. It fostered innovation and a strong will to work and succeed. Why ruin a good thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idiotboy
    1. Zoning is a step in the direction of abolishing ownership of property. Telling me what I can do with my property is headed in that direction.
    So idiotboy is opposed to zoning because it infringes upon his freedom. Since you throw out an absolute, I'm going to counter with a hypothetical. Let's assume you buy a house. I know I'm hallucinating because we both know that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Soooo, I decide it's time to bring some of those jobs shipped overseas home and employ the American worker. I buy the land next door, tear down everything on it (assuming it was improved property) and build a steel mill. You would have no problem with that? Right?

    Now you're a poor oppressed person who despises the government holding sway over you and impinging upon your freedom. Does this mean you support gay marriage? After all isn't the same government oppressing you doing the same to individuals of the same sex?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    Two last points. One of the great things about freedom, is you have the ability to leave the US if things become to much for you to bear.

    Lastly, none of this changes the fact that Limbaugh was critical of a sitting President who was ordering troops into harm's way. Something he claimed was unpatriotic during the Bush Administration.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Socialist trying to control capitalism; I believe they have names like Mussolini and Hitler.
    With that response, I do believe that there is nothing left for me to say. You have hit bottom
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Published in 1947, and making a comeback today. Seems like the Red Scare is back.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    So idiotboy is opposed to zoning because it infringes upon his freedom. Since you throw out an absolute, I'm going to counter with a hypothetical. Let's assume you buy a house. I know I'm hallucinating because we both know that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Soooo, I decide it's time to bring some of those jobs shipped overseas home and employ the American worker. I buy the land next door, tear down everything on it (assuming it was improved property) and build a steel mill. You would have no problem with that? Right?
    Posted by scarecrow
    10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c. - Been around forever, education vouchers that Bush proposed would be close to this as well.
    Maybe you can build your steel mill next to Scarecrows placwe wirth child labor...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Socialist trying to control capitalism; I believe they have names like Mussolini and Hitler.
    It took a while, but idiotboy finally dissolves into Godwin's Law.

    Sort of like the witch in the Wizard of Oz whose just had water thrown on her.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    This countries biggest problem is that we have been told over the last 50 years that Capitalism is God and that any slightest variation of socialism equals full blown communism.
    What is wrong with capitalism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slipperypete View Post
    What is wrong with capitalism?
    I think that unregulated and uncontrolled capitalism leads to the meltdown that we are facing. People become so concerned about profit that they throw all caution to the wind.

    It's not the everyday person that is the problem. It's the big cooperation/CEO's/Boardmembers that get so mad with money and greed that they will push everything else aside in order to increase share prices.

    I believe that regulation of capitalism should not attempt to stifle growth, but that it should ensure that the growth is based on realistic principles.

    Building an entire economy on the gamble that "Mr. Somebody" will pay his mortgage on time seemed pretty stupid.
    Last edited by MarcusKspn; 04-18-2009 at 07:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So idiotboy is opposed to zoning because it infringes upon his freedom. Since you throw out an absolute, I'm going to counter with a hypothetical. Let's assume you buy a house. I know I'm hallucinating because we both know that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Soooo, I decide it's time to bring some of those jobs shipped overseas home and employ the American worker. I buy the land next door, tear down everything on it (assuming it was improved property) and build a steel mill. You would have no problem with that? Right?
    It's your land, do with as you will.

    Now you're a poor oppressed person who despises the government holding sway over you and impinging upon your freedom. Does this mean you support gay marriage? After all isn't the same government oppressing you doing the same to individuals of the same sex?

    Marriage is a religious concept, it has no place in government as there is separation of church and state

    Two last points. One of the great things about freedom, is you have the ability to leave the US if things become to much for you to bear.

    Lastly, none of this changes the fact that Limbaugh was critical of a sitting President who was ordering troops into harm's way. Something he claimed was unpatriotic during the Bush Administration.
    You seem to be the only one who cares what Rush says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Nope, the biggest problems are the lazy that sit back and wait for the government to provide for their needs. And our government makes it easy. All you have to do is go see Dr. SummerOff. Socialist trying to control capitalism; I believe they have names like Mussolini and Hitler. Capitalism and freedom made this country great. It fostered innovation and a strong will to work and succeed. Why ruin a good thing?

    Uh Scarecrow, Hitler and Mussolini were facists, virtually the 180 opposite of communism, never mind socialism. Basically Germany, Italy, and at 1 point Spain were absolute Fascist dictatorships. Soviet Union was an absolute dictatorship under Joe Stalin. There are quite a few pretty sucessful countries around the world that practice or accept differing degrees of socialism. I remain a very firm believer that the root of this entire problem is the unbridled consumerism that can betraced back to theearly 50's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post


    Marriage is a religious concept, it has no place in government as there is separation of church and state
    Really, where does it say that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    Really, where does it say that?
    The Bible, The Qurían, Book of Mormon, et al.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Uh Scarecrow, Hitler and Mussolini were facists, virtually the 180 opposite of communism, never mind socialism. Basically Germany, Italy, and at 1 point Spain were absolute Fascist dictatorships. Soviet Union was an absolute dictatorship under Joe Stalin. There are quite a few pretty sucessful countries around the world that practice or accept differing degrees of socialism. I remain a very firm believer that the root of this entire problem is the unbridled consumerism that can betraced back to theearly 50's.
    The root of the problem is that an economy is a chaotic system and cannot be controlled. There will be ups and downs no matter what you do. Our leaders believe they can control everything. As mere mortals we cannot control the economy, the climate, the weather, the hopes and desires of people around the world, other countries, The Sun, The Moon, and the list goes on.

    The only purpose of a governing body is to establish a set of rules to live by. In America, the fore fathers developed a set of laws that valued freedom above all else. Over the last 100 years we have ignored that concept and slowly but surely taken away the freedom of the people. Freedom comes at a cost, and some people just can't accept that.

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