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  1. #61
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    This countries biggest problem is that we have been told over the last 50 years that Capitalism is God and that any slightest variation of socialism equals full blown communism.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin


  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    And all the banks, brokers, realtors have repeatedly shown that they cannot be trusted. If there is one thing this mess has shown us is that business cannot regulate themselves.

    Ever tried putting B-shift on an honor system??? It doesn't work
    So we can't trust the bankers, brokers, or realtors. We certainly can’t trust the government, and who in the right mind would trust any of the 535 folks trying to ruin this country. Don’t forget, those 535 on the hill are in the back pockets of all of those folks you just mentioned. They not only invested trillions of dollars of taxpayer money in those corporations but they gave them bonuses as well. And who did they fire? Who did they ask to make concessions?

    So who can we trust? The answer, each person must trust themselves to do the right thing.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    This countries biggest problem is that we have been told over the last 50 years that Capitalism is God and that any slightest variation of socialism equals full blown communism.
    Nope, the biggest problems are the lazy that sit back and wait for the government to provide for their needs. And our government makes it easy. All you have to do is go see Dr. SummerOff. Socialist trying to control capitalism; I believe they have names like Mussolini and Hitler. Capitalism and freedom made this country great. It fostered innovation and a strong will to work and succeed. Why ruin a good thing?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idiotboy
    1. Zoning is a step in the direction of abolishing ownership of property. Telling me what I can do with my property is headed in that direction.
    So idiotboy is opposed to zoning because it infringes upon his freedom. Since you throw out an absolute, I'm going to counter with a hypothetical. Let's assume you buy a house. I know I'm hallucinating because we both know that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Soooo, I decide it's time to bring some of those jobs shipped overseas home and employ the American worker. I buy the land next door, tear down everything on it (assuming it was improved property) and build a steel mill. You would have no problem with that? Right?

    Now you're a poor oppressed person who despises the government holding sway over you and impinging upon your freedom. Does this mean you support gay marriage? After all isn't the same government oppressing you doing the same to individuals of the same sex?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    Two last points. One of the great things about freedom, is you have the ability to leave the US if things become to much for you to bear.

    Lastly, none of this changes the fact that Limbaugh was critical of a sitting President who was ordering troops into harm's way. Something he claimed was unpatriotic during the Bush Administration.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Socialist trying to control capitalism; I believe they have names like Mussolini and Hitler.
    With that response, I do believe that there is nothing left for me to say. You have hit bottom
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

  6. #66
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    Published in 1947, and making a comeback today. Seems like the Red Scare is back.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

  7. #67
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    So idiotboy is opposed to zoning because it infringes upon his freedom. Since you throw out an absolute, I'm going to counter with a hypothetical. Let's assume you buy a house. I know I'm hallucinating because we both know that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Soooo, I decide it's time to bring some of those jobs shipped overseas home and employ the American worker. I buy the land next door, tear down everything on it (assuming it was improved property) and build a steel mill. You would have no problem with that? Right?
    Posted by scarecrow
    10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c. - Been around forever, education vouchers that Bush proposed would be close to this as well.
    Maybe you can build your steel mill next to Scarecrows placwe wirth child labor...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Socialist trying to control capitalism; I believe they have names like Mussolini and Hitler.
    It took a while, but idiotboy finally dissolves into Godwin's Law.

    Sort of like the witch in the Wizard of Oz whose just had water thrown on her.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    This countries biggest problem is that we have been told over the last 50 years that Capitalism is God and that any slightest variation of socialism equals full blown communism.
    What is wrong with capitalism?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipperypete View Post
    What is wrong with capitalism?
    I think that unregulated and uncontrolled capitalism leads to the meltdown that we are facing. People become so concerned about profit that they throw all caution to the wind.

    It's not the everyday person that is the problem. It's the big cooperation/CEO's/Boardmembers that get so mad with money and greed that they will push everything else aside in order to increase share prices.

    I believe that regulation of capitalism should not attempt to stifle growth, but that it should ensure that the growth is based on realistic principles.

    Building an entire economy on the gamble that "Mr. Somebody" will pay his mortgage on time seemed pretty stupid.
    Last edited by MarcusKspn; 04-18-2009 at 06:04 PM.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So idiotboy is opposed to zoning because it infringes upon his freedom. Since you throw out an absolute, I'm going to counter with a hypothetical. Let's assume you buy a house. I know I'm hallucinating because we both know that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Soooo, I decide it's time to bring some of those jobs shipped overseas home and employ the American worker. I buy the land next door, tear down everything on it (assuming it was improved property) and build a steel mill. You would have no problem with that? Right?
    It's your land, do with as you will.

    Now you're a poor oppressed person who despises the government holding sway over you and impinging upon your freedom. Does this mean you support gay marriage? After all isn't the same government oppressing you doing the same to individuals of the same sex?

    Marriage is a religious concept, it has no place in government as there is separation of church and state

    Two last points. One of the great things about freedom, is you have the ability to leave the US if things become to much for you to bear.

    Lastly, none of this changes the fact that Limbaugh was critical of a sitting President who was ordering troops into harm's way. Something he claimed was unpatriotic during the Bush Administration.
    You seem to be the only one who cares what Rush says.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Nope, the biggest problems are the lazy that sit back and wait for the government to provide for their needs. And our government makes it easy. All you have to do is go see Dr. SummerOff. Socialist trying to control capitalism; I believe they have names like Mussolini and Hitler. Capitalism and freedom made this country great. It fostered innovation and a strong will to work and succeed. Why ruin a good thing?

    Uh Scarecrow, Hitler and Mussolini were facists, virtually the 180 opposite of communism, never mind socialism. Basically Germany, Italy, and at 1 point Spain were absolute Fascist dictatorships. Soviet Union was an absolute dictatorship under Joe Stalin. There are quite a few pretty sucessful countries around the world that practice or accept differing degrees of socialism. I remain a very firm believer that the root of this entire problem is the unbridled consumerism that can betraced back to theearly 50's.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post


    Marriage is a religious concept, it has no place in government as there is separation of church and state
    Really, where does it say that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    Really, where does it say that?
    The Bible, The Qur’an, Book of Mormon, et al.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Uh Scarecrow, Hitler and Mussolini were facists, virtually the 180 opposite of communism, never mind socialism. Basically Germany, Italy, and at 1 point Spain were absolute Fascist dictatorships. Soviet Union was an absolute dictatorship under Joe Stalin. There are quite a few pretty sucessful countries around the world that practice or accept differing degrees of socialism. I remain a very firm believer that the root of this entire problem is the unbridled consumerism that can betraced back to theearly 50's.
    The root of the problem is that an economy is a chaotic system and cannot be controlled. There will be ups and downs no matter what you do. Our leaders believe they can control everything. As mere mortals we cannot control the economy, the climate, the weather, the hopes and desires of people around the world, other countries, The Sun, The Moon, and the list goes on.

    The only purpose of a governing body is to establish a set of rules to live by. In America, the fore fathers developed a set of laws that valued freedom above all else. Over the last 100 years we have ignored that concept and slowly but surely taken away the freedom of the people. Freedom comes at a cost, and some people just can't accept that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    It took a while, but idiotboy finally dissolves into Godwin's Law.

    Sort of like the witch in the Wizard of Oz whose just had water thrown on her.
    I'd love to contiue this debate, but whenever beerboy joins in, I just lose any enthusiasm I had. Hope you understand.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I'd love to contiue this debate, but whenever beerboy joins in, I just lose any enthusiasm I had. Hope you understand.
    Perhaps you should debate him. He would welcome someone that is down to his intellectual and intelligence level. I can tell by his one line “idiotboy” responses that most of what I say goes right over his head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Uh Scarecrow, Hitler and Mussolini were facists, virtually the 180 opposite of communism, never mind socialism. Basically Germany, Italy, and at 1 point Spain were absolute Fascist dictatorships. Soviet Union was an absolute dictatorship under Joe Stalin. There are quite a few pretty sucessful countries around the world that practice or accept differing degrees of socialism. I remain a very firm believer that the root of this entire problem is the unbridled consumerism that can betraced back to theearly 50's.
    Ahh once again you are right (concerning Hitler and Facism). That is what I get for just grasping at names in the heat of the moment. My BAD!!!!
    One thing I have learned through life experiences as well as my professional training is that you have to understand your audience and address them on terms they understand. Hence when dealing with SC and Nozzlebrain I often get a bit stupid. It’s difficult working down at that level. Typically when responding I will do some research to make sure I have the facts straight. However, when dealing with these two facts don’t matter and they often make stuff up anyway. So when dealing with them I act like in kind.
    As a side note. It is truly a pleasure to discuss issues with someone who is intelligent, respectful, and articulate thanks for being here and rising above the others.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Perhaps you should debate him. He would welcome someone that is down to his intellectual and intelligence level. I can tell by his one line “idiotboy” responses that most of what I say goes right over his head.

    George... I think Strawbrains just threw a shot at you...

    I'm going to get myself a cold beer and a bowl of popcron... this is going to be good!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    George... I think Strawbrains just threw a shot at you...

    I'm going to get myself a cold beer and a bowl of popcron... this is going to be good!
    Ya think???

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