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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Actually I believe the best of both worlds is to have preconnects AND deadlay hose beds available.

    My volly FD uses 200 and 300 foot 2 inch pre-connects and also has a 500 foot 3 inch deadlay in the hose bed with a gated wye and 100 feet of 2 inch connected. the other 500 foot 3 inch deadlay is used for standpipes or supplying an Elkhart RAM.

    My career FD uses 100 foot 1 1/2 inch and 200 foot 1 3/4 and 2 1/2 preconnects and also has a 500 foot 2 1/2 inch deadlay bed connected to a wye with 150 feet of 1 3/4 inch connected. The other dead lay bed of 2 1/2 has 100 feet of additional 2 1/2 bundled and attached with a nozzle for fire attack.

    The best is options. The speed of pre-connects if appropriate and the flexibility of greater lengths if needed from the deadlay beds.
    Which set up is your standard leadout? Or do you have one? I agree with having both. It seems strange to me when people talk about only having preconnected lines. It seems like you could really get in a trickbag running like that.


  2. #22
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    A 200' preconnect will get us where we need to get where we need to get 98% of the time.

    If not, we'll simply extend the preconnect with the second.

    We have the deadlay but it is not pre-set with a wye.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    A 200' preconnect will get us where we need to get where we need to get 98% of the time.

    If not, we'll simply extend the preconnect with the second.
    Easier said than done during a fire.

  4. #24
    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
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    we use two 300 foot 1.75" preconnects and one 300 foot 2.5" preconnects. All are flat with ears at 50 and the 150 spots to either side of the rig. Rear bed carries 600 feet 2.5" two wide stack with ears at 50 and 150. Also the rear has 2 x 100 bundles of 1.75" with a wye and break apart nozzle.

    Rational: 300 feet covers most of the bases in my district. some long stretches in parking garages and garden apts. If you need farther than 300 feet you should go with 2.5" and a wye to 1.75" lines. It is a little more to carry initially but at the time it is on the ground and charged we usally have a sencond engine crew there and it really speeds up the back up line. Plus 300 is on the high end getting close to the pressure ratings on the hose so to reduce the burst potential.

    Rational for flat loads: most versital load imo. If I need it minuteman-ed we just do the hug, twist, and flip on the shoulder so the nozzle is on the bottom. We run into obstructions (fences, cop cars, ornate yard sculpture in the rich side of town) which makes the 3xlayer such a poor choice.

    Think of your stretches that you will do in your district and plan accordingly.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

  5. #25
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    Easier said than done during a fire.

    True, but 98% of the time it's not an issue.

  6. #26
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whocares View Post
    Which set up is your standard leadout? Or do you have one? I agree with having both. It seems strange to me when people talk about only having preconnected lines. It seems like you could really get in a trickbag running like that.
    No such thing as a standard leadout for us. We generally end up at the fire building and the company officer makes the call of preconnect or deadlay. Although I guess I should clarify that...if possible preconnects are used simply because of speed. But with industrial, large merchantile, elderly housing complexes, and apartment buildings they simply do not always work so we have chosen, on both departments I am on, to become proficient in using both layouts.

  7. #27
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Easier said than done during a fire.

    True, but 98% of the time it's not an issue.
    It's rarely what you do 98% of the time that burns your butt when it comes to laying hose. It is the 2% you never thought of, envisioned, imagined, or practiced.

    Frankly, why have a dead load if it isn't set up for rapid use? With either a gated wye and some lengths of 1 3/4 attached or a 2 1/2 inch nozzle attached. Smooth bore of course.

    When is the last time you PRACTICED adding hose to your preconnects? If you don't practice it how do you get proficient?

  8. #28
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    That dead load is 3" and is actually used far more for truck-to-truck supply or short hydrant lays on small incidents where we don't need the flow of a 4".

    I have been here 6 years and we have used a 2.5" or 3" attack line once. So, obviously it's very rare that we use one. And unlikley we would use 2.

    District is primarily SF residential and the 200' loads get us where we need to go.

  9. #29
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    We have flat loaded 1 3/4" & 2 1/2" crosslays and flat loaded 2 1/2" deadlays on the rear. We also carry 2 bundles (100' each) of 1 3/4". Crosslays are the standard, deadlay is for the rare calls. Majority of my residences are within 25' of the curb so the crosslays will work. We have a "rental" section of summer homes that are on the beach front that are up to 400' from the street...that is where our deadlays get used.

    Yes, we practice it. Yes, we use it.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  10. #30
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    We have a "rental" section of summer homes that are on the beach front that are up to 400' from the street...that is where our deadlays get used

    Simmiliar situation to my past department in VT that protected a lot of lakefront summer properties.

    We used 3" deadlays quite a bit.

    We carried (2) 200' 1.75" preconnects, and on our last 3 engines, we also installed 2 reels which carried 400' of 1.75" per reel. This gave us the flexability to pull an attack line longer than the "standard" 200' for those summer home or commercial structure situations.

    It also gave us the sufficient hose to flow 5-6 attack lines off of one engine and utilize the pump to it's full capabilities, rather than using multiple attack engines.

  11. #31
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    Preconnected Crosslays:

    150 feet 1.75 hose w/ automatic nozzle flat loaded due to space restrictions
    200 feet 1.75 hose w/ automatic nozzle flat loaded " " ".

    Preconnected Hose bed:

    250 feet 3.0 hose w/ 2.5 automatic nozzle.
    this serves as double duty. as a preconnected "bomb line" or can be wyed off and the high rise pack connected to it for further reach.

    Hose bed:

    1200 feet 3.0 hose split in half, set up for 1 forward lay and 1 reverse lay of 600 feet each. hose ends are capped with double female/double male to ensure "duals" can be laid forward or reverse, or a single lay of 1200 feet. the male/female at the bottom of the bed are connected together.

    9 times out of 10 supply is made with 1, 3 inch hose in a forward lay.

  12. #32
    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    [B]

    We carried (2) 200' 1.75" preconnects, and on our last 3 engines, we also installed 2 reels which carried 400' of 1.75" per reel. This gave us the flexability to pull an attack line longer than the "standard" 200' for those summer home or commercial structure situations.
    Reels would be a terrible way to load hose for quick deployment. Of course unless you have then nozzleman to never take the working length and there is enough guys to pick up weach coupling.

    Few issues with reels.
    1.) it requires more energy to pull agains the reel, even in the unlocked position
    2.) if it is not straight out from the reel, you will be required to keep people there to make the turn from the straight angle from the reel.
    3.) the nozzleman has to go bak and grab the initial working length
    4.) single side deployment for that reel

    I stretch hose often and would be awfully ****ed if someone came to me and gave me an engine with reels on it.... except a booster for washdowns and mulch fires
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

  13. #33
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    Actually, with training, it works well.

    Pump operator assisted with the pull.

    Had a reel for each side.

    I would often prefer to pull a 200' line from the reels rather than stretch the minuteman.

    What little extra time it took to take it off the reels was more than saved in reloading.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I would often prefer to pull a 200' line from the reels rather than stretch the minuteman.

    What little extra time it took to take it off the reels was more than saved in reloading.
    Only you would choose to do something that takes longer DURING the actual fire only to save yourself time AFTER the fire.

    Complete fool.

  15. #35
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    Ya, that's me.

    That extra 20 seconds made one hell of a difference on vehicle, trash, debris and brush fires.

    And it actually didn't make a damn bit of difference on structure fires either.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    ... we also installed 2 reels which carried 400' of 1.75" per reel. This gave us the flexability to pull an attack line longer than the "standard" 200' for those summer home or commercial structure situations...
    Personally, I would not want to see anyone ever pull a 400' 1.75" line into a commercial building. But that may just be me (and my Department)...

    Lakewood NJ, with it's 1 man engine company, uses a reel and it works absolutely fine for him. It's also a CAFS line. Yes, he operates alone.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Ya, that's me.

    That extra 20 seconds made one hell of a difference on vehicle, trash, debris and brush fires.

    And it actually didn't make a damn bit of difference on structure fires either.
    YOU said that you trade the extra time in stretching it for the time saved in repacking it. Not ME.

    So there is no need for your further arrogance or backpedaling.

    Why give the people you protect the benefit of some time saving procedure when you can save the time saving procedures all for yourself after their emegency is over, right?

    At least your selfishness is consistent.

  18. #38
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    ... we also installed 2 reels which carried 400' of 1.75" per reel. This gave us the flexability to pull an attack line longer than the "standard" 200' for those summer home or commercial structure situations...
    Seems like a long piece of 1.75" to get much flow through. Hopefully you have a smoothbore to help out a little bit.

    I'm not sure I would like having to pull all 400'. Would prefer to run 3" to a gated wye and add the standpipe pack if I needed that much hose. Gives me the option to run a second line off of the 3" if needed.

  19. #39
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    Nope. All fog. We didn't even carry smoothbores for the 1.75" or the 2.5" lines.

    We would generally not pull a 400' 1.75". We would generally use a maximum of 300'. If it was longer than that we would use 3" w/ a wye.

    However the 800' on reels plus the (2) 200' rear preconnects gave us the enough hose to flow 5-6 attack lines off the attack engine.

    Our policy was to flow as much water of the primary engine as possible and limit the number of "attack" engines.

  20. #40
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    And jakes ..

    I admitted it did take a little longer.

    Very rarely did it matter.

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