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  1. #1
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    Default Preconnected Hose Loads

    Hello all! I need your input. Recently I've been tasked to research some hose loads other than what we currently carry in the intrest of switching or just to know in the case our neighboring depts use them. So I have 2 questions for you all:

    1. What Preconnect do you use? Pro's and Con's?

    2. Does anyone use what is called a "Cleveland" load as a preconnect? If so, Pro's and Con's?

    Thank you all very much for your input. It's much appreciated!


    FireMedicThorne
    Urbandale Fire Dept. IA


  2. #2
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedicThorne View Post
    Hello all! I need your input. Recently I've been tasked to research some hose loads other than what we currently carry in the intrest of switching or just to know in the case our neighboring depts use them. So I have 2 questions for you all:

    1. What Preconnect do you use? Pro's and Con's?

    Flat load. Easy to load. Easy to deploy.

    I like the Minute man load but my FD's are pretty set in their ways.


    2. Does anyone use what is called a "Cleveland" load as a preconnect? If so, Pro's and Con's?

    I haven't used it but I think it is worth taking a look at. Easy to load and easy to deploy. Especially if part of a bundle on top of 100 feet or more of flat loaded hose to allow it to be extended easily.

    Thank you all very much for your input. It's much appreciated!


    FireMedicThorne
    Urbandale Fire Dept. IA
    Good luck, nice to see research instead of well they do it so it must be cool to do it too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedicThorne View Post
    1. What Preconnect do you use? Pro's and Con's?
    Triple-layer load. It's pretty easy to deploy, especially if someone knows to go at a 45-degree angle from the truck, away from the house, then come back to the front door. The biggest con is that it takes some practice to learn how to load it properly and get things lined up right.

    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedicThorne View Post
    2. Does anyone use what is called a "Cleveland" load as a preconnect? If so, Pro's and Con's?
    Never used it, so I can't comment on that one.

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    [QUOTE=FireMedicThorne;1055261]Hello all! I need your input. Recently I've been tasked to research some hose loads other than what we currently carry in the intrest of switching or just to know in the case our neighboring depts use them. So I have 2 questions for you all:

    1. What Preconnect do you use? Pro's and Con's?

    200ft in a triple fold.
    Pros:
    -Fast to deploy if you know how
    -All hose is semi-flaked out when you get to the door
    Cons:
    -Takes some time to repack
    -Not everyone knows how to do it when your on a Strike Team assignment with other agencies
    -If there is alot of twists in turn between the fire and the engine it can get difficult.

    2. Does anyone use what is called a "Cleveland" load as a preconnect? If so, Pro's and Con's?

    Never heard of it. I personally like the minuteman load as its basically a flat load so anyone can help repack it and its easier to go through twists and turns with. Only drawback is now you have all the hose on your shoulder as compared to the ground but even thats not too bad.

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    We use the triple layer on both our 200 foot preconnects, as well as our preconnected skid load. In addition to the sentiments above, I would say that another benefit is that it can be deployed in 1/3 the distance of the entire length (in our case, about 66 feet) with minimal additional "flaking out". We've found that it can be difficult to reload efficiently, but that can easily be fixed with a little practice.

  6. #6
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    we use the flat load. It's easy to load and if someone manages to mess it up, it'll still deploy

    It's simple, it works, and no matter where you get sent to or who you are working with, they should be able to deploy it.

  7. #7
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
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    All hose packed flat.

    Search is your best friend FireMedicThorne. Several pages and posts concerning this subject.

    Give a feed back on what you learned.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedicThorne View Post
    Hello all! I need your input. Recently I've been tasked to research some hose loads other than what we currently carry in the intrest of switching or just to know in the case our neighboring depts use them. So I have 2 questions for you all:

    1. What Preconnect do you use? Pro's and Con's?

    2. Does anyone use what is called a "Cleveland" load as a preconnect? If so, Pro's and Con's?

    Thank you all very much for your input. It's much appreciated!

    FireMedicThorne
    Urbandale Fire Dept. IA
    Current dept uses 200' of 1 3/4" in a minuteman load. Easy to repack, but can end of in a mess if not flaked out correctly. My old dept used the triple pack. It was easy to deploy and not much flaking out was needed, but it was terrible to repack.

  9. #9
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    Our preconnects are 200' of 1 3/4" hose, the bottom 100 feet is flat loaded, and then we flat stack the next two lengths. What this does is gives you two 50 foot bundles, one with the nozzle on top. When we deploy it, we face the bed, grab the bundle to our left, which has the nozzle, and we turn around, to face away from the engine, placing the nozzle on our shoulder. This in effect makes a minute man load. Then all you do, is keep turning so that you face the engine again, and now grab the next 50 feet, turning to face away again and placing this bundle on top of your shoulder. It works well for us, and is easy to get the line around parked cars, fences, and what not that we have in our districts.

    Never used the cleveland load, not sure what it is.

  10. #10
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    My rig has a 50ft length of 1-3/4" in the front bumper for trash. It's folded flat. That's my only preconnect.
    Other rigs might have 200' and 100' but we never pull them first.

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    crosslays: (2) 400' of 1.75" triple layed-works great if everyone will remember to put the loops in it at the right places to grab a hold of.
    out the rear- (1) 150' of 1.75" flat layed
    (1) 400' of 2 1/2" flat layed
    bumper line-(1) 100' of 1.5" flat layed(sometimes it gets reloaded in an accordian load)
    Puttin the wet stuff on the red stuff!

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    Have you ever considered NOT using preconnected hose loads?

    There are some distinct advantages to not having preconnects of pre-determined lengths depending on what type of response area you are in.

    Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    Have you ever considered NOT using preconnected hose loads?

    There are some distinct advantages to not having preconnects of pre-determined lengths depending on what type of response area you are in.

    Just a thought.
    Jakesdad, you're right. My engine and another engine "tested" the idea of 300' static beds a couple years ago to determine if it was good for the dept. Guy grabs the nozzle and heads to the point of entry or point of fire attack. Engineer broke the line when he felt enough was played out and connected it to the discharge. It was fast, easy, and little to no kink. Unfortunately, it was overruled by the brass and that was it. It was great as our district had everything from 800sq' slab cracker boxes 30' off the road to 3 story 3000sq' houses sitting 150' from the road with alot of commercial and industrial in between. It always gave an easy quick option that standard 150' or 200' preconnects don't.
    I agree, a good option for departments to consider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YFDLt08 View Post
    Jakesdad, you're right. My engine and another engine "tested" the idea of 300' static beds a couple years ago to determine if it was good for the dept. Guy grabs the nozzle and heads to the point of entry or point of fire attack. Engineer broke the line when he felt enough was played out and connected it to the discharge. It was fast, easy, and little to no kink. Unfortunately, it was overruled by the brass and that was it. It was great as our district had everything from 800sq' slab cracker boxes 30' off the road to 3 story 3000sq' houses sitting 150' from the road with alot of commercial and industrial in between. It always gave an easy quick option that standard 150' or 200' preconnects don't.
    I agree, a good option for departments to consider.
    What was their rationale behind it being overuled? And what do you do with those preconnects that aren't the appropriate length for the occupancy you are stretching to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    What was their rationale behind it being overuled? And what do you do with those preconnects that aren't the appropriate length for the occupancy you are stretching to?
    Rationale: above my pay grade "Yes, sir, we can have the old system back in place right away." (I would have emphasized the word old in that statement but haven't figured out how to bold it yet on these forums)

    Preconnects: Depends on fire situation. For excess hose situation we obviously just have extra to flake out in the front yard. For insufficient hose situation we can do one of two things: either take one line and begin to attack everything we can reach while we wait for second company to add a section to a second line, or we can take one of the donut roll sections and add right away. Just would depend on situation honestly. Either way can and is effective for various fires we've found.
    Last edited by YFDLt08; 04-22-2009 at 08:38 PM.

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    Default Hose Bed Options

    I would revisit the static beds if at all possible. We have them at 450' and 300' in length for both 1 3/4" and 2 1/2" - work great. Try some time trials on that fire (or objective) that is just beyond the range of your preconnects. Static beds save all kinds of time vs. extending lines. We sold it on that time comparison and the ease of getting the first line in service for our 3 member companies.

    A good resource for you may be Dave Fornell's "Fire Stream Management" from Fire Engineering. Excellent resource on hose, nozzles, tactics - a lot of history and background.

    Good luck.

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    Crosslays are triple loads. 200'. Just switched to triple loads from flat loads.

    2 1/2" pre-connect, which is very rarely used (once every 2-3 years) is a 250', is a flat load.

    We have an 800 3" dead load. Flat lay.

    We have forestry bundles for brush fire operations. Just a simple flat load.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    Have you ever considered NOT using preconnected hose loads?

    There are some distinct advantages to not having preconnects of pre-determined lengths depending on what type of response area you are in.

    Just a thought.
    One reason we don't use them is rig positioning. Our (flexible) SOP has the first engine stopping two buildings past the fire building, leaving room for the trucks. It's flexible because there are some 50-75ft wide 5 story non-standpipe buildings in some areas. It's always a length or two from the backstep to the front door even with a small building. Also, many buildings have renovations not obvious from the street adding to the stretch. We had fire showing on the left side, 2nd floor of a 3-story, 6 family frame. When we got to the 2nd floor hall there was no entrance door. It was covered over. The family also had the other apartment on that floor and broke through the common wall in the rear to make two units into one. We went from the rear in the hall to the front, entered into what was the right unit, through that to the back, into the left side unit to the fire in the front. That added 2 lengths to the stretch.
    There are too many variables in my area so we always go from the 500ft bed.

  19. #19
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    Actually I believe the best of both worlds is to have preconnects AND deadlay hose beds available.

    My volly FD uses 200 and 300 foot 2 inch pre-connects and also has a 500 foot 3 inch deadlay in the hose bed with a gated wye and 100 feet of 2 inch connected. the other 500 foot 3 inch deadlay is used for standpipes or supplying an Elkhart RAM.

    My career FD uses 100 foot 1 1/2 inch and 200 foot 1 3/4 and 2 1/2 preconnects and also has a 500 foot 2 1/2 inch deadlay bed connected to a wye with 150 feet of 1 3/4 inch connected. The other dead lay bed of 2 1/2 has 100 feet of additional 2 1/2 bundled and attached with a nozzle for fire attack.

    The best is options. The speed of pre-connects if appropriate and the flexibility of greater lengths if needed from the deadlay beds.

  20. #20
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    I've seen the Cleveland Load used for High-Rise packs, but not for pre-connects........
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

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